drug vs dragged

[Gudy]

Originally Posted by cklls

Yes!!! That one drives me nuts! And don't get me going on the whole homonym thing. The one that irritates me most is the misuse of there, their, and they're. Oh, and loose and lose are used incorrectly more often than not. And then there's then and than.

Point the first: those are homophones, not homonyms.

Point the second: homophone errors are irritating as all hell.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by DreamWriter

sentences ending in prepositions (exceptions might be dialogue)

Actually, ending sentences in prepositions is not incorrect. Neither is splitting an infinitive, by the way. Both "rules" date to misguided grammarians' attempts at making English function like Latin, which they believed had perfect grammar. Aside from the question of whether Latin grammar is perfect or merely annoying, it's not English grammar, and English can no more be hammered into a Latin mold than Russian can be made to follow Spanish. Since infinitives can't be split in Latin, the "rule" was made that they shouldn't be split in English, and likewise the users of prepositions were supposed to ignore centuries of perfectly correct English usage and follow a Latin model. Which, of course, leads us to Winston Churchill's (reputed) reply to an editor: "This is an outrage up with which I shall not put." Here's one explanation.

I have a bit of a peeve with people who sell live fish: They firmly believe in a rule of "one inch of fish to one gallon of water" as the revealed truth, and I've had one refuse to sell me a dozen guppies to put in a 10-gallon tank ... despite the fact, ironically enough, that they would be catching them out of a store tank with at least ten times that stocking level. It was the only rule they knew, probably the only rule they'd ever learned, and I doubt if they knew why it was a rule, but it was all they had, so they stuck to it like death. The people who teach the myths about trailing prepositions and split infinitives are the same way: they don't know why the "rule" exists, but they learned it somewhere (probably from someone who didn't know either) and by God they're going to enforce it, because without understanding, rote rules are all they have.

But you can go ahead and break it. Those really aren't the droids you're looking for. In fact, if you try to move that preposition and say "those aren't the droids for which you're looking" the result just looks stiff and awkward. Formality is a good thing, but the formality imposed by prescriptive Latin grammarians and ill-educated 19th-century schoomasters is something we can do without.

As for homophone and homonym: "same sound" or "same name"? Look at their roots, at their meanings, and it becomes obvious which one you want. The problem is with words like "their" and "they're" that have the same sound, so they're homophones.

There are a lot of websites which can help with grammar in general and the comma thing in particular. For abused words, I like Common Errors in English. Here's a good one for commas. Nothing, however, can replace a real understanding of the words you're using, any more than a set of rules ("always use a 17mm open-end wrench on these nuts") can replace a deep understanding of your tools in any other field. You have to know not just what the rules are but what the tools are -- what they do, how they do it, and how to use them to make them do what you want. Otherwise, well, you confuse homonym and homophone, put commas between every adjective so your sentences look like laundry lists, and hyphenate numerals wherever you find them, because you think you remember seeing something like that done once, and you're really just guessing.

Oh, as for the fish: The one-inch rule is roughly appropriate for medium-sized fish the setups that were common at the time it was made: bare tanks with gravel and an air-driven corner filter (pretty much the weakest filtration out there). You get totally different conditions in, say, a tank with a canister filter (look at how many fish your typical pet store puts in its display tanks with their massive filtration), and plants are veritable nitrate sponges. And it's really weight, not length: ten one-inch tetras are not equivalent to one ten-inch Oscar. Species matters, too: goldfish are far dirtier than their weight in cichlids. Saltwater tanks can't handle nearly as much as freshwater tanks. Guppies can live and breed happily in a bucket; discus need super-pure water. Etc., ad infinitum. What the fools selling fish don't get is the proper care and feeding of de-nitrifying bacteria, so while they're hung up on their inch-and-gallon rule, they'll cheerfully sell someone five two-inch fish to put in a brand-new, uncycled tank, and that is a prescription for dead fish. It's really all about keeping your bacteria happy. And English is the same way. Know your tools, not just some rules.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Actually, ending sentences in prepositions is not incorrect.

Thanks for the helpful grammar lesson, Worldwalker. I learn something new every day! Apparently, I missed the preposition rule when I was exempted from middle-school English classes. I'm sure that's not the only important information that I missed.

I just looked up the preposition rule in a reference book entitled English Grammar Simplified. It states:

"The word preposition is derived from the Latin pre, before, and pono, place. The preposition was originally so called because in Latin it was always placed before its object. In English the preposition ordinarily precedes its object, but may at times appropriately, and very forcibly, follow its object, even when the preposition thus ends a clause or sentence, as the following example shows:

The soil out of which such men as he are made is good to be born on, good to live on, good to die for and to be buried in.
—Lowell Among My Books, Second Series, "Garfield."

"When used with the relative pronoun that, the preposition must follow its object: This is the book that I came for. In the English language the object of a preposition is the word that follows it in thought, not necessarily in position."

Very interesting. Thanks again for enlightening me. Those websites you mentioned are helpful as well.

[DreamWriter]

Following up, I'd appreciate any recommendations for a comprehensive American English grammar book!

[HarryT]

The "Chicago Manual of Style" is often recommended. Available online here.

For British English, the definitive work is perhaps Fowler's "Modern English Usage".

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The "Chicago Manual of Style" is often recommended. Available online here.

For British English, the definitive work is perhaps Fowler's "Modern English Usage".

Thanks, Harry. I do have the 12th edition of "Chicago Manual of Style," published in 1969, but there's no entry in the index for prepositions! I just ordered Garner's Modern American Usage, and I already have English Grammar Simplified, which is helpful.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by DreamWriter

Following up, I'd appreciate any recommendations for a comprehensive American English grammar book!

Are you looking for a grammar book, usabge book, or a style book? The Chicago Manual is a style guide (e.g., should president be capitalized in a particular circumstance), not a grammar or usage book.

Garner's Modern American Usage is considered the authority on usage in the United States.

One of the grammar books I like is C. Edward Good's Whose Grammar Book Is This Anyway.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The "Chicago Manual of Style" is often recommended. Available online here.

For British English, the definitive work is perhaps Fowler's "Modern English Usage".

Harry, both of the books you name are usage books, not grammar books. Usage and grammar are different. Usage determines, for example, whether president should be lowercase or uppercase, whether the correct word is compliment or complement. Grammar books focus on structural elements -- is it a noun, adverb, verb, etc.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by DreamWriter

Thanks, Harry. I do have the 12th edition of "Chicago Manual of Style," published in 1969, but there's no entry in the index for prepositions! I just ordered Garner's Modern American Usage, and I already have English Grammar Simplified, which is helpful.

Your version of Chicago is way out of date. The current version (released in 2010) is the 16th edition and there have been many changes since the 12th edition.

Also, which style manual is appropriate depends on the journal, publisher, and field. Chicago is most widely used, but there are also the American Psychological Association Style Manual, the MLA (Modern Language Association) manual, the AMA (American Medical Association) Manual of Style, the Council of Science Editors' Scientific Style and Format manual, and numerous others.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Harry, both of the books you name are usage books, not grammar books. Usage and grammar are different. Usage determines, for example, whether president should be lowercase or uppercase, whether the correct word is compliment or complement. Grammar books focus on structural elements -- is it a noun, adverb, verb, etc.

Thank you for the correction.

[Victoria]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Also, any time some character on TV is supposed to be educated, the writers' give themselves away by misusing subjective "I" and objective "me." That makes me cringe.

That makes I cringe too!

The killer is when I'm corrected incorrectly. For example "please invite Susan and me to the meeting"....leads to the correction "You mean 'Susan and I ' to the meeting....

[Victoria]

[QUOTE=If no-one had called me out of it, I'd probably still be mixing up "wench" and "wrench", or "kneeing" and "kneeling".[/QUOTE]

Sorry to laugh, but these two mistakes are a scream! I immediately thought of dozens of scenarios where you'd leave people scratching their heads, or bonking you on yours.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Are you looking for a grammar book, usabge book, or a style book? The Chicago Manual is a style guide (e.g., should president be capitalized in a particular circumstance), not a grammar or usage book.

Garner's Modern American Usage is considered the authority on usage in the United States.

One of the grammar books I like is C. Edward Good's Whose Grammar Book Is This Anyway.

I was looking for another grammar book. I've been using the Chicago Manual as a style guide for many years, and it's very helpful in that regard.

It's good to read that you recommend Garner's Modern American Usage because I just ordered that earlier today. I'll check out the other book you mentioned too. Thanks!