CC - Not Licensed on Hudl 2 Child Account - Page 2

cybmole · 02-17-2015, 05:38 AM

I think the Hudl has a basic "all or nothing" / "adult or child" setting.

What you get when you use leading edge hardware suppliers like Tesco

but yes, the router idea could work; even my rubbish virgin media superhub has some parental controls based on MAC values, so it could restrict a specific hardware device, ( while it is in the house anyway)

& surely it's possible to force password control on play store purchases. I have that "on" for amazon app store /video store/ book store on my kindlefire for "fat finger" protection.

alternatively, having no stored credit cards at Google is pretty good protection, just enter as needed, then delete.

Difflugia · 02-17-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybmole

not similar at all. CC is not needed or useful for a 5 year old with no internet access. CC exists to facilitate retrieving books from calibre via wifi. it is NOT unreasonable for it to check it's licence when asked to do that. it is a pointless install for a device that is not allowed online.

I disagree. "Internal LAN" is not internet access.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybmole

you could nitpick that connecting via wifi LAN to calibre is not the same as internet to entire world but why bother...

Because she's five and I want her to have access to her library without access to the internet.

cybmole · 02-17-2015, 10:27 AM

five years old & with her very own hacked app - way to go

why not put ALL of her library on her tablet, & be legal- no need to connect , no licence check to pass.

or use content server option as already suggested.

a coding war: " I'll hack every update "- "oh no you won't, I'll fix it so you can't"... is not the best way forward

theducks · 02-17-2015, 11:31 AM

No DNS lookup (127.0.0.0) should stop most internet access

Difflugia · 02-17-2015, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybmole

five years old & with her very own hacked app - way to go

why not put ALL of her library on her tablet, & be legal- no need to connect , no licence check to pass.

or use content server option as already suggested.

a coding war: " I'll hack every update "- "oh no you won't, I'll fix it so you can't"... is not the best way forward

I responded to your post in the Feedback forum.

cybmole · 02-18-2015, 01:45 AM

so , getting back to original topic....
i read through the hudl features on google it seems they thought through most of what a child account needs, but maybe did not think through the parent buys the app licence issue.
http://home.bt.com/techgadgets/phone...11363939693782
The Tesco Hudl 2 is an ideal tablet for family use. It even comes with a dedicated Child Safety app that automatically blocks unsuitable web content, games and apps so your kids don’t end up seeing things they shouldn’t.

The Child Safety app lets you create a separate account for each Hudl 2 user and features settings that are tailored to the age of every person in your household.

Here’s how to set it up....

So the hudl tablet does natively support the various restrictions over surfing and shipping that are needed for child protection.

it would be good to have an update of what if anything tesco have replied with

cybmole · 02-18-2015, 02:19 AM

expanding this a little, the general conundrum is with any tablet that supports multiple accounts ( a feature of lollipop ?)- and thus supports multiple google account links

is an app licensed to the account, or to the device & have google fully thought it through themselves. Their basic approach seem to be account linked - if I change device I can install any apps previously bought without paying again, and I can have the same paid or app on multiple devices if they all share my google credentials.

But for the family sharing a tablet setup, we want device level sharing. Microsoft seems to have done it with win 8 OK. I can't speak for apple. but with win 8.1, I can log into their store with a microsoft account , install an app, log into local account b in win 8 and still access the app ( well it worked for netflix so I assume it works for paid apps also )

In true multi user, one would expect an app to store multiple config sets, one per user- can it do that but still only store one licence state ?

chaley · 02-18-2015, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybmole

expanding this a little, the general conundrum is with any tablet that supports multiple accounts ( a feature of lollipop ?)- and thus supports multiple google account links

Multiple accounts have been in Android since 4.2.

Quote:

is an app licensed to the account, or to the device & have google fully thought it through themselves. Their basic approach seem to be account linked - if I change device I can install any apps previously bought without paying again, and I can have the same paid or app on multiple devices if they all share my google credentials.

Standard licensing is based on the google account. You can run an app on as many devices and as many users as you want as long as all of them reference the google account used to buy the app. That account does not need to be the "main" account for the user.

Quote:

But for the family sharing a tablet setup, we want device level sharing. Microsoft seems to have done it with win 8 OK. I can't speak for apple. but with win 8.1, I can log into their store with a microsoft account , install an app, log into local account b in win 8 and still access the app ( well it worked for netflix so I assume it works for paid apps also )

In true multi user, one would expect an app to store multiple config sets, one per user- can it do that but still only store one licence state ?

Yes, sort of. An app's config (settings) are stored per android user. As I noted above, licensing is controlled by the google accounts, which are also stored per user. This implies that every account is able to check the license, which is the root of the problem with the hudl 2.

chaley · 02-18-2015, 06:21 AM

Regarding the original question posted by africalass, how to get licensing to work on the hudl 2, she and I have been working on the problem. We have a solution that works for her, but I am not happy with it because it is not a general solution.

I have come up with a more general solution to the problem, in effect device-based licensing, and have asked africalass if she has time to test it. It works with multiple accounts on my N7 but then so does normal licensing.

EDIT: She has agreed to test the new solution. Thanks!

chaley · 02-21-2015, 05:31 AM

With africalass's help, we have a solution for her problem and others like it. The next CC release contains code to check the license once per device. Once the license is confirmed you can set up any restricted accounts on the device to use the admin's license. This scheme also works for non-restricted devices behind firewalls. Before locking down the device the "owner" gets CC to check the license.

And yes, there are ways to break this, in effect pirating the app. However, breaking it isn't obvious and the tools-that-shall-not-be-named already do the job, so this scheme adds user convenience without adding any more risk.

to africalass for testing three iterations of the scheme.

EDIT: this new feature is limited to the Google Play version. It does not work with Amazon licensing.

Matth79 · 02-21-2015, 06:47 PM

Sorted then, otherwise this looked potentially useful
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...l_opds_scanner
Looks like it lets you bring stuff to FBReader - free companion to free reader (I LIKE!)

africalass · 02-23-2015, 08:44 AM

Sorry for the delay in replying to this - as Chaley mentioned the original solution was not one that would work generically and so I was waiting to see how things worked out - and hadn't realised there were so many replies stacking.

With regards to the Calibre Companion side things are now completely sorted, and huge kudos to Chaley for listening to the issue and working immediately to find a solution (especially when the issue wasn't a CC one but a Hudl one). Checking the app licence in the admin account and then transferring the settings to the child account works perfectly and is pretty straightforward.

For the Hudl2 in general, I am waiting to hear back from Tesco, as obviously this licence check issue would apply to any app that uses this feature. They were interested in my account of the problem and have said their tech team will investigate. It is obviously something they have done in creating the extra secure child accounts, as when Chaley tested with a restricted profile on another device the app licence check worked. I am hoping they can find some way to let through just the licence checks without giving access to play store etc. If they do reply then I will post that up on here.

With regards to people wondering about the Hudl2 for kids, despite having to sort this specific matter, I would generally recommend it. My kids (as I suspect most others) are quite willing to press any and every button to edit settings and download additional ponies, hairstyles and theme park rides. At least I can relax and know that they can't make any purchases (even if they do somehow figure out my pin). The settings allow me to easily create time limits (both number of hours per day, and also start/finish times) for both weekends & weekdays, allow/disallow specific websites or website groups and access to only the apps I choose from my google account.

Somebody mentioned rooting the device or removing licence checks, but I very much want to keep these tablets as out of the box. The main reason I chose them (well, apart from getting them for £30 each thanks to my Tesco tokens) is the strict operating system and controls I mention above.

If anyone comes across this and is a beginner like me (or have not used restricted profiles) - please note that you will need to be in the child account when you transfer the books across (whether by wireless and USB). The path is different for the admin account, so if you want to access your books as admin as well as as a child, then you will need to copy them on there twice. This is an Android thing not a CC thing. It only seems to be different for the pre set-up media folders (such as music) which both accounts can share.

Someone also commented on the licencing. From what I've read, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, licences are based purely on the google account. So if a device has two normal profiles on it, which use different google accounts, they cannot share an app. However a restricted profile (of which the Hudl2 child profile is a sub-group) is completely different to a second profile, as it is still based on the primary admin google account and can therefore access any app purchased from that account (assuming permission is given within the settings). For me, this way makes sense. When the girls grow up and want their own emails etc, and have their own account, I'll be very happy to repurchase CC etc. so they can have it on their own profile, even if we share a device.

If I've not responded to something I should have let me know and I'll reply!

02-18-2015, 06:21 AM	#24
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	Regarding the original question posted by africalass, how to get licensing to work on the hudl 2, she and I have been working on the problem. We have a solution that works for her, but I am not happy with it because it is not a general solution. I have come up with a more general solution to the problem, in effect device-based licensing, and have asked africalass if she has time to test it. It works with multiple accounts on my N7 but then so does normal licensing. EDIT: She has agreed to test the new solution. Thanks! Last edited by chaley; 02-18-2015 at 08:14 AM.

02-21-2015, 05:31 AM	#25
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	With africalass's help, we have a solution for her problem and others like it. The next CC release contains code to check the license once per device. Once the license is confirmed you can set up any restricted accounts on the device to use the admin's license. This scheme also works for non-restricted devices behind firewalls. Before locking down the device the "owner" gets CC to check the license. And yes, there are ways to break this, in effect pirating the app. However, breaking it isn't obvious and the tools-that-shall-not-be-named already do the job, so this scheme adds user convenience without adding any more risk. to africalass for testing three iterations of the scheme. EDIT: this new feature is limited to the Google Play version. It does not work with Amazon licensing. Last edited by chaley; 02-22-2015 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Add limitation

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02-17-2015, 05:38 AM	#16
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	I think the Hudl has a basic "all or nothing" / "adult or child" setting. What you get when you use leading edge hardware suppliers like Tesco but yes, the router idea could work; even my rubbish virgin media superhub has some parental controls based on MAC values, so it could restrict a specific hardware device, ( while it is in the house anyway) & surely it's possible to force password control on play store purchases. I have that "on" for amazon app store /video store/ book store on my kindlefire for "fat finger" protection. alternatively, having no stored credit cards at Google is pretty good protection, just enter as needed, then delete.

02-17-2015, 10:27 AM	#18
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	five years old & with her very own hacked app - way to go why not put ALL of her library on her tablet, & be legal- no need to connect , no licence check to pass. or use content server option as already suggested. a coding war: " I'll hack every update "- "oh no you won't, I'll fix it so you can't"... is not the best way forward

02-17-2015, 11:31 AM	#19
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,807 Karma: 54830978 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	No DNS lookup (127.0.0.0) should stop most internet access

02-18-2015, 01:45 AM	#21
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	so , getting back to original topic.... i read through the hudl features on google it seems they thought through most of what a child account needs, but maybe did not think through the parent buys the app licence issue. http://home.bt.com/techgadgets/phone...11363939693782 The Tesco Hudl 2 is an ideal tablet for family use. It even comes with a dedicated Child Safety app that automatically blocks unsuitable web content, games and apps so your kids don’t end up seeing things they shouldn’t. The Child Safety app lets you create a separate account for each Hudl 2 user and features settings that are tailored to the age of every person in your household. Here’s how to set it up.... So the hudl tablet does natively support the various restrictions over surfing and shipping that are needed for child protection. it would be good to have an update of what if anything tesco have replied with

02-18-2015, 02:19 AM	#22
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	expanding this a little, the general conundrum is with any tablet that supports multiple accounts ( a feature of lollipop ?)- and thus supports multiple google account links is an app licensed to the account, or to the device & have google fully thought it through themselves. Their basic approach seem to be account linked - if I change device I can install any apps previously bought without paying again, and I can have the same paid or app on multiple devices if they all share my google credentials. But for the family sharing a tablet setup, we want device level sharing. Microsoft seems to have done it with win 8 OK. I can't speak for apple. but with win 8.1, I can log into their store with a microsoft account , install an app, log into local account b in win 8 and still access the app ( well it worked for netflix so I assume it works for paid apps also ) In true multi user, one would expect an app to store multiple config sets, one per user- can it do that but still only store one licence state ?

02-21-2015, 06:47 PM	#26
Matth79 Zealot Posts: 122 Karma: 502620 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kobo Touch	Sorted then, otherwise this looked potentially useful https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...l_opds_scanner Looks like it lets you bring stuff to FBReader - free companion to free reader (I LIKE!)

02-23-2015, 08:44 AM	#27
africalass Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Various - sometimes UK, sometimes South Africa, sometimes other countries in Europe / Africa Device: Windows Laptop; Kindle Keyboard; Hudl2 (Android), iPhone	Sorry for the delay in replying to this - as Chaley mentioned the original solution was not one that would work generically and so I was waiting to see how things worked out - and hadn't realised there were so many replies stacking. With regards to the Calibre Companion side things are now completely sorted, and huge kudos to Chaley for listening to the issue and working immediately to find a solution (especially when the issue wasn't a CC one but a Hudl one). Checking the app licence in the admin account and then transferring the settings to the child account works perfectly and is pretty straightforward. For the Hudl2 in general, I am waiting to hear back from Tesco, as obviously this licence check issue would apply to any app that uses this feature. They were interested in my account of the problem and have said their tech team will investigate. It is obviously something they have done in creating the extra secure child accounts, as when Chaley tested with a restricted profile on another device the app licence check worked. I am hoping they can find some way to let through just the licence checks without giving access to play store etc. If they do reply then I will post that up on here. With regards to people wondering about the Hudl2 for kids, despite having to sort this specific matter, I would generally recommend it. My kids (as I suspect most others) are quite willing to press any and every button to edit settings and download additional ponies, hairstyles and theme park rides. At least I can relax and know that they can't make any purchases (even if they do somehow figure out my pin). The settings allow me to easily create time limits (both number of hours per day, and also start/finish times) for both weekends & weekdays, allow/disallow specific websites or website groups and access to only the apps I choose from my google account. Somebody mentioned rooting the device or removing licence checks, but I very much want to keep these tablets as out of the box. The main reason I chose them (well, apart from getting them for £30 each thanks to my Tesco tokens) is the strict operating system and controls I mention above. If anyone comes across this and is a beginner like me (or have not used restricted profiles) - please note that you will need to be in the child account when you transfer the books across (whether by wireless and USB). The path is different for the admin account, so if you want to access your books as admin as well as as a child, then you will need to copy them on there twice. This is an Android thing not a CC thing. It only seems to be different for the pre set-up media folders (such as music) which both accounts can share. Someone also commented on the licencing. From what I've read, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, licences are based purely on the google account. So if a device has two normal profiles on it, which use different google accounts, they cannot share an app. However a restricted profile (of which the Hudl2 child profile is a sub-group) is completely different to a second profile, as it is still based on the primary admin google account and can therefore access any app purchased from that account (assuming permission is given within the settings). For me, this way makes sense. When the girls grow up and want their own emails etc, and have their own account, I'll be very happy to repurchase CC etc. so they can have it on their own profile, even if we share a device. If I've not responded to something I should have let me know and I'll reply!