Need help understanding Kobo vs Pocketbook

[pypeke]

Originally Posted by DNSB

For what it may be worth, I use both of Kobo's native renders, RMSDK for most epubs since I prefer it's font handling which is likely of little interest to anyone who doesn't find themselves commenting "why would they use Flox Regular for an entire book?" I use the Kobo Webkit based renderer (kepub.epub) for books where I like being able to zoom images and for ePub3 ebooks using features such as fixed layout.

I have both KOReader and Plato installed and play with them occasionally but since Kobo improved their PDF handling, I haven't had much of an excuse to use KOReader. Given that I edit my ebooks before sending them to my Kobos, there is little need to being able to tweak my ebooks on device.

Thanks. It is worth a lot that you are trying to help!

I think the stock reader will be fine for me. Did you say Kobo has 2 stock readers?

What exactly is a kepub, epud2, and epub3? I won't need to zoom in. I will probably edit books before moving to Kobo eReader once I get smart enough to do it.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by pypeke

Or maybe download new fonts on the Kobo. Does PocketBook let me download new fonts?

Originally Posted by pypeke

All I THINK I know is that is sideloading books is necessary with Pocketbook (no store) and that Kobo has its own store. Does Kobo work like Nook and Kindle where you can use your eReader to download straight from their store?

Yes, you can download fonts to a PocketBook. I use Constantia — basically for everything.

PocketBook doesn't provide a built-in store that's very useful to English speakers (and readers) but it doesn't mean you have to sideload. Since PocketBooks have ADE "built-in," you can download books directly from eBook stores, like eBooks.com, or even borrow books directly using Overdrive. You can use the eInk browser to do this directly, but it's easier to buy the book with a computer or smartphone and use the "Send-to-PocketBook" feature to send the ACSM file to the PocketBook, which will then download the ePub from Adobe.

[pypeke]

Does ACSM mean that is the file for a PocketBook book?

Amazon is KFX or AZW3?

Nook is epub?

Does that mean a Kobo book is a kepub?


Trying to figure everything out, but I am guessing.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by pypeke

Does ACSM mean that is the file for a PocketBook book?

Amazon is KFX or AZW3?

Nook is epub?

Does that mean a Kobo book is a kepub?

Trying to figure everything out, but I am guessing.

The ACSM file is what allows you to download the ePub book from an Adobe server. With Nooks and Kobos that process is normally handled by them when they deliver the book directly to their eReaders. But if you download the book from Kobo or Barnes & Noble (via your computer) you can still get ACSM files as well. (Doing this with Barnes & Noble is convoluted, but it can be done.) If you get the book from a place like eBooks.com or Google, you'll download the ACSM file. On your computer you can use Adobe ADE to download the actual ePub book (if you're not using Linux, there is no ADE for Linux). PocketBook and (I believe) Tolino allow you to bypass ADE (on your computer) because they have it built-in into their eReaders. Sony used to do this as well, years ago, but their certifications weren't updated and that feature is no longer available.

I believe Amazon uses their own system for DRM protection.

Kobo can use ePub. KePub is just their "enhanced" ePub. I believe you can change the extension to ePub and use their books on other eReaders. (if the DRM protection is disabled.) PocketBooks actually have two readers built-in. One for ePub 2 and one for ePub 3, which has some newer features. Normally it's just handled automatically, but if you press and hold on the book cover, you can choose which reader software you would prefer. I believe PocketBook uses the most advanced ePub "engine" — RMDSK — in eReaders (but I don't know a lot about it). Kobo has gone with their own ePub enhancements (KePub) but can use standard ePub books as well. I think all eReaders (besides Kindles) work with ePubs

Sorry for rambling. I'm sure others can explain this more clearly than I have.

[pypeke]

Originally Posted by rcentros

The ACSM file is what allows you to download the ePub book from an Adobe server. With Nooks and Kobos that process is normally handled by them when they deliver the book directly to their eReaders. But if you download the book from Kobo or Barnes & Noble (via your computer) you can still get ACSM files as well. (Doing this with Barnes & Noble is convoluted, but it can be done.) If you get the book from a place like eBooks.com or Google, you'll download the ACSM file. On your computer you can use Adobe ADE to download the actual ePub book (if you're not using Linux, there is no ADE for Linux). PocketBook and (I believe) Tolino allow you to bypass ADE (on your computer) because they have it built-in into their eReaders. Sony used to do this as well, years ago, but their certifications weren't updated and that feature is no longer available.

I believe Amazon uses their own system for DRM protection.

Kobo can use ePub. KePub is just their "enhanced" ePub. I believe you can change the extension to ePub and use their books on other eReaders. (if the DRM protection is disabled.) PocketBooks actually have two readers built-in. One for ePub 2 and one for ePub 3, which has some newer features. Normally it's just handled automatically, but if you press and hold on the book cover, you can choose which reader software you would prefer. I believe PocketBook uses the most advanced ePub "engine" — RMDSK — in eReaders (but I don't know a lot about it). Kobo has gone with their own ePub enhancements (KePub) but can use standard ePub books as well. I think all eReaders (besides Kindles) work with ePubs

Sorry for rambling. I'm sure others can explain this more clearly than I have.

Thanks. To clarify... (Still confused on #1-3.)

1. Do I WANT only ASCM files? I thought epubs were what I wanted to send to a Kobo.

2. If I get a book from Google or eBooks, then I want ASCM files? No other file formats? Then download Adobe ADE to my laptop and use my laptop to do something to the book before sending it to the eReader (PocketBook or Kobo)? Confused on this one.

3. PocketBook has built in ADE so nothing to do if I download a book directly to a PB device. If I use my laptop to download a book, then the book has to have something done to it with Adobe ADE before I send it to a PB device?

4. PocketBook uses epub2 and epub 3. I read that one of those allows for zooming in to maps, etc.

5. Nook uses epub.

6. Kobo uses epub and kepub.

7. Amazon uses KFX currently. (AZW3 for older books.)

[Sirtel]

ACSM means an epub with DRM. If the book has DRM, you'll get an ACSM file; if it has no DRM, you'll get an epub.

[John F]

Originally Posted by pypeke

Thanks. To clarify... (Still confused on #1-3.)

1. Do I WANT only ASCM files? I thought epubs were what I wanted to send to a Kobo.

2. If I get a book from Google or eBooks, then I want ASCM files? No other file formats? Then download Adobe ADE to my laptop and use my laptop to do something to the book before sending it to the eReader (PocketBook or Kobo)? Confused on this one.

3. PocketBook has built in ADE so nothing to do if I download a book directly to a PB device. If I use my laptop to download a book, then the book has to have something done to it with Adobe ADE before I send it to a PB device?

4. PocketBook uses epub2 and epub 3. I read that one of those allows for zooming in to maps, etc.

5. Nook uses epub.

6. Kobo uses epub and kepub.

7. Amazon uses KFX currently. (AZW3 for older books.)

Look at it this way. Download the file from wherever you want. If it has an ASCM extension, you need to open the ACSM file with ADE (Adobe Digital Editions) or something else that will handle the ACSM file (I believe there is a calibre plugin also). If you download an Epub, you are done.

[pypeke]

Originally Posted by John F

Look at it this way. Download the file from wherever you want. If it has an ASCM extension, you need to open the ACSM file with ADE (Adobe Digital Editions) or something else that will handle the ACSM file (I believe there is a calibre plugin also). If you download an Epub, you are done.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

ACSM means an epub with DRM. If the book has DRM, you'll get an ACSM file; if it has no DRM, you'll get an epub.

Ahhh! I understand. Thank you both!

[Readirect]

Returning to the original question in this evidently hijacked thread ...

First, the TLDR: There are major problems with all devices -- Kobo has stability & firmware design issues; PB has annoyances with responsiveness (for tasks other than reading.) However PB's design with respect to sideloading & customization is so superior that I'll never go back to Kobo (let alone Kindle, which is by far the worst of any device ever produced.)

Over the years, I've accumulated about a dozen Kindle, Kobo & Pocketbook devices AND there are huge differences between them in ways that I've never seen discussed before.

Starting with firmware stability: I've had major stability issues with my Forma & Clara Colour (including the KC bricking itself while sideloading books.) Never had a problem with my Pocketbook Verse or InkPad 4.

Continuing with sideloading: Kobo & PB approach this task entirely differently, with Kobo processing sideloads at one time, before the OS loads while PB allows the OS to load first. The problem comes when attempting to load too many books at once with Kobo & I've had continual problems with Kobo loading >~500 books. My 32GB Forma & my Clara Colour both frequently choked on that, but at least the Forma always recovered with a restart. The Clara didn't and bricked itself. Beyond stability, though, the PB is much better in its approach: maintaining a folder for books sideloaded together, so you can see what books it loaded & when. That's very nice.

The next feature is customization and while Kobo & PB are much (much) better than Kindle, PB takes customization to an entirely different level; allowing the user to change button function & screen tap/gestures much better than Kobo. It's a really nice feature.

The major annoyance with PB is its responsiveness and it can take a very long time to perform non-reading tasks. So page turns, notes, etc. are fine but other tasks like opening books & selecting options can take awhile. For the features the PB firmware provides, though, it's not a problem for me.

Finally, a shout out to the PB Verse. Not the Pro or Color, the base model. It's 212 dpi screen seems like it should be a problem, but the lower-dpi is not noticeable at all AND the really nice thing about this device -- other than the 6" screen which is a personal preference -- is the 128GB sd-card; making it ideal for very large libraries. At ~ $120, it's a freaking steal and it's my GOAT. If you're looking for a 6" e-reader, this is the one to get. BTW, neither the Verse Color nor the Verse Pro have an sd-card.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Readirect

There are major problems with all devices -- Kobo has stability & firmware design issues; PB has annoyances with responsiveness (for tasks other than reading.) However PB's design with respect to sideloading & customization is so superior that I'll never go back to Kobo (let alone Kindle, which is by far the worst of any device ever produced.)

Kindle isn't the worst though poor compared to Kobo.

You overstate issues with Kobo. I might read hours a day for years on Kobo with no issues. It has support for blurb, subtitle, publisher, series, author, title via sideload using USB from Calibre. That's when it gets charged.

I've maybe had 8 makes of ereader, though not Pocketbook, Bigme or Oynx.

How is Pocketbook superior for sideloading (and I count WiFi inferior except on Android because its MTP is so poor)?

One reason some ereaders did have SD card was poor builtin storage. The 32G allows easily 18,000 full novels. That's 49 years at one a day on average. The cheaper 8 G 6″ models allow about 4000 full novels, nearly 11 years at average of one a day. A 6″ is very poor for other than reflowable novels. Even a 6″ Kindle PW3 is fine sideloading if you only care about title and author (not cover, series, or easily collections).

I've had the 6.8″ Kobo H2O original which is better than 6", even though it's not 300 dpi. I know what 212 dpi is from the 10.3″ reMarkable and Elipsa. I prefer the Kobo Sage 300 dpi 8″ with page buttons.

Obviously your preference is a particular Pocketbook, but it's really a preference, not overwhelmingly better.

I've had/have 4.7, 5, 6, 6.8, 7, 7.8, 8, 9.7 and 10.3 inches eink from 150 dpi to 300 dpi.

I'd consider Pocketbook & Onyx Boox if Kobo didn't exist. Not Meebook or Bigme and not back to Kindle. I can read reviews and separate wheat and chaff. The Pocketbooks don't seem all equal and I'm no longer interested in Android eink. The TCL NxtPaper is a better Android option.

[JSWolf]

If I needed a new Reader, I'd consider Pocketbook. The reason is that Kobo has no 7" BW Reader. The color Readers are lousy (IMHO) and the Clara BW is 6" and too small for me. The Sage's battery life is too poor and it's too large to carry with me.. The Elipsa is too large and the battery too poor.

So that leaves Pocketbook.

The problem with Kindles is the PW5 is basically gone and Amazon is charging way too much for refurbished models. The 2024 Kindles ate MTP and do not allow D&T. And that leaves those out.

Amazon & Kobo are not doing right by customers. Kobo needs a Libra BW and Amazon need to get rid of MTP and allow D&T.

[Quoth]

I agree that 7″ is nice size, I too prefer it to 6″. Fortunately though I have a Libra and Libra 2, I prefer the 8″ Sage. However some find it too big and it's the price of a decent tablet or cheap laptop or a ChromeBook.

I'm temped to get a spare in case it meets the fate of the mono Libra models.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by pypeke

Thanks. To clarify... (Still confused on #1-3.)

1. Do I WANT only ASCM files? I thought epubs were what I wanted to send to a Kobo.

The .acsm (Adobe Content Server Message) file allows you to download an ePub with Adobe DRM from Kobo and other sites. If the ebook does not have DRM, Kobo simply sends you the ePub file while Google and most others will insist on using the .acsm file.

Originally Posted by pypeke

2. If I get a book from Google or eBooks, then I want ASCM files? No other file formats? Then download Adobe ADE to my laptop and use my laptop to do something to the book before sending it to the eReader (PocketBook or Kobo)? Confused on this one.

If your ereader is authorized for the same account used by ADE on your computer, ADE is able to send the books to your ereader.

Originally Posted by pypeke

3. PocketBook has built in ADE so nothing to do if I download a book directly to a PB device. If I use my laptop to download a book, then the book has to have something done to it with Adobe ADE before I send it to a PB device?

See the comment about authorized using the same account above.

Originally Posted by pypeke

4. PocketBook uses epub2 and epub 3. I read that one of those allows for zooming in to maps, etc.

I can't help with that. I remember reading about PB and multiple renderers but don't know if one of them allows zooming.

Originally Posted by pypeke

6. Kobo uses epub and kepub.

A kepub file is an ePub file with added spans etc. used by Kobo's ePub3 renderer. You can use them elsewhere without needing to make any changes since the added spans are treated as null operations and the .kepub.epub extension is treated as a .epub extension by other programs. The version of RMSDK used by Kobo while I prefer it's font handling is not as capable an ePub3 renderer as their Readium based renderer. So I normally use .epub for RMSDK unless I am reading a graphics heavy book where I want to zoom or an ePub3 fixed layout book. One acquaintance of mine uses kepub for most of his reading since he is reading Japanese language ebooks where capabilities such as ruby text are important.

Originally Posted by pypeke

7. Amazon uses KFX currently. (AZW3 for older books.)

And occasionally even now I've gotten an Amazon ebook in mobi format. The oldest Kindles can only use mobi while some of the middle aged Kindles can use mobi or KF8/azw3. Then we have the misbegotten AZW4 ebooks which are an Amazon wrapper around a .PDF format ebook.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Readirect

Returning to the original question in this evidently hijacked thread ...

First, the TLDR: There are major problems with all devices -- Kobo has stability & firmware design issues; PB has annoyances with responsiveness (for tasks other than reading.) However PB's design with respect to sideloading & customization is so superior that I'll never go back to Kobo (let alone Kindle, which is by far the worst of any device ever produced.)

Over the years, I've accumulated about a dozen Kindle, Kobo & Pocketbook devices AND there are huge differences between them in ways that I've never seen discussed before.

Starting with firmware stability: I've had major stability issues with my Forma & Clara Colour (including the KC bricking itself while sideloading books.) Never had a problem with my Pocketbook Verse or InkPad 4.

Continuing with sideloading: Kobo & PB approach this task entirely differently, with Kobo processing sideloads at one time, before the OS loads while PB allows the OS to load first. The problem comes when attempting to load too many books at once with Kobo & I've had continual problems with Kobo loading >~500 books. My 32GB Forma & my Clara Colour both frequently choked on that, but at least the Forma always recovered with a restart. The Clara didn't and bricked itself. Beyond stability, though, the PB is much better in its approach: maintaining a folder for books sideloaded together, so you can see what books it loaded & when. That's very nice.

When I received my Kobo Libra Colour, I transferred over 9,000 ebooks to it from calibre in one session. All my epubs have passed epubcheck and most have been edited by me for consistency. There were no issues during the transfer. After the eject/import/reconnect to send the metadata, all the series/series index, subtitles, multiple authors, page counts, word counts, etc. were there. I also restored the bookmarks so reading and finished status were updated.

Oddly, I very seldom look at the books on my device using a file browser. Using search is just so much faster and convenient. Though I suppose that if I ever wanted to, I could open the eBooks(*) directory on my Kobos and sort the author sort named directory by date modified. Even when I use KOReader, I use it's ability to search the calibre metadata file. Browsing through thousands of authors is, IMNSHO, a good use of my time.

* Using an eBooks directory avoids the issue with the limit on the number of directory entries in the root of a FAT32 volume especially when using long file names that chew up directory entries like a baseball fan munching on Spitz.