html toc with epub 3.0

jasonjmb · 04-07-2017, 05:22 PM

Hi, I hope I am posting my question in the right section. My question has to do with nav.xhtml and epub 3.0.

I export my books from LibreOffice using eLaix. It used to export in epub 2.0 and everything was fine. I use Sigil to generate both the logical as well as html table of contents.

Now eLaix started exporting in epub 3.0. Sigil does not allow manually changing it back to 2.0 and I am not sure what to do with the html toc.

The trouble maker is nav.xhtml. Since epub 3.0 requires this file, Sigil generates it but takes it out of the linear order in the spine. From what I've read, some devices will ignore this and still display it. So I am faced with two options:

1. Use Sigil to generate the html toc (TOC.xhtml) and delete nav.xhtml from the spine so that it never shows up.

2. Use nav.xhtml as the html toc (forget about TOC.xhtml) and change its "linear" property to yes.

Am I understanding the situation correctly? Any recommendations?

theducks · 04-07-2017, 08:42 PM

I use the (standalone) Unpack_epub tool, free from the folk at Atlantis WP
to edit the OPF, changing the version 3.0 to 2.0, save, then click repack

Now Sigil is happy to open, gen your NCX, then TOC (the TOC tool needs the NCX)

Then you can restore the 3.0 value if you want

KevinH · 04-07-2017, 08:59 PM

Yes, a nav.xhtml is required as it is both a machine and human readable (ie it effectively replaces the toc.ncx).

That said you can easily use Sigil to create an additional human readable only toc.xhtml if you would prefer and include it in the spine with linear yes and remove the nav.xhtml from the spine or simply leave it as linear no.

jasonjmb · 04-08-2017, 09:49 AM

KevinH and theducks, thank you very much! I am much more comfortable with the situation now. However, I am still wondering what is the best practice. Specifically:

1. Is epub 2.0 preferred if I am making a traditional fiction/nonfiction with little graphics and no media?

2. If I use epub 3.0, should I just use the nav.xhtml (the TOC.xhtml now seems redundant).

JSWolf · 04-08-2017, 09:53 AM

In an ePub 3 that you are trying to make backwards compatible, for the ToC, you only need the NCX and NAV ToC. You do not need any other ToC.

Me, I'd convert to ePub 2 and forget the NAV ToC.

DiapDealer · 04-08-2017, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Me, I'd convert to ePub 2 and forget the NAV ToC.

Wow. There's a surprise!

jasonjmb · 04-09-2017, 12:07 PM

well, I did discover that nav.xhtml allows me to specify where Kindle opens the book at. I was able to start my book at the toc (appropriate for an anthology of short stories) by labeling it "text" in nav.xhtml.

JSWolf · 04-09-2017, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonjmb

well, I did discover that nav.xhtml allows me to specify where Kindle opens the book at. I was able to start my book at the toc (appropriate for an anthology of short stories) by labeling it "text" in nav.xhtml.

That's not a good place to start the book. The best place is at the cover.

jasonjmb · 04-09-2017, 08:54 PM

I have trouble starting my book at the cover in Kindle. So, I specify cover.xhtml as "text" in nav.xhtml, Kindle indeed shows my cover first. However, it also duplicates the cover, because my understanding is that, when I specify cover.xhtml as the "cover", kindle ignores the file and generates a cover on its own. So when I specify cover.xhtml also as "text", it then includes it after the cover it generated on its own. I am curious to know how to show the cover in Kindle the right way.

Hitch · 04-12-2017, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonjmb

I have trouble starting my book at the cover in Kindle. So, I specify cover.xhtml as "text" in nav.xhtml, Kindle indeed shows my cover first. However, it also duplicates the cover, because my understanding is that, when I specify cover.xhtml as the "cover", kindle ignores the file and generates a cover on its own. So when I specify cover.xhtml also as "text", it then includes it after the cover it generated on its own. I am curious to know how to show the cover in Kindle the right way.

Well, are you asking for the correct way to include the cover, or are you asking for the correct way to include the cover, and then have it also open to the cover?

The correct way to include the cover, in an ePUB that is intended to be the source of the MOBI is to semantically mark the cover image, and then remove the cover.html file from the ePUB. Then build the MOBI via KGen, KPreviewer or the KDP. That, however, won't necessarily render the cover as the SRL—the start reading location. Sry, on phone and can't elaborate further right nowwill try to login later and add to this.

Hitch

jasonjmb · 04-16-2017, 09:15 AM

I am mystified as to how to tell Kindle to open to the cover. I can use the "text" semantics to open the book anywhere else, but as you pointed out, my html cover is not supposed to be included in the book. your enlightenment on this matter would be much appreciated!

DiapDealer · 04-16-2017, 10:50 AM

There are already many, many threads (some still ongoing) concerning the intricacies of manipulating the Kindle SRL (none of which are Sigil|EPUB-specific|dependent). I would prefer this not become another one.

Hitch · 04-16-2017, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

There are already many, many threads (some still ongoing) concerning the intricacies of manipulating the Kindle SRL (none of which are Sigil|EPUB-specific|dependent). I would prefer this not become another one.

Diap:

I'd like to respond to the poster, even though what I tell him shan't make him very happy. What's your suggestion or Direction?

Hitch

Notjohn · 04-16-2017, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonjmb

I am mystified as to how to tell Kindle to open to the cover. I can use the "text" semantics to open the book anywhere else, but as you pointed out, my html cover is not supposed to be included in the book. your enlightenment on this matter would be much appreciated!

Also on these MobileRead forums, you can go to Ebook Formats / Kindle Formats and ask the question without being scolded.

DiapDealer · 04-16-2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Diap:

I'd like to respond to the poster, even though what I tell him shan't make him very happy. What's your suggestion or Direction?

Hitch

Feel free to finish your thought. You did say you'd be back to add more to your post.

I'll just split these posts out into a new thread in the Workshop if feel it's warranted, at some point.

I'm just tired of the Kindle SRL topic in general, to tell the truth. Let alone its (ir)relevance to Sigil.

04-07-2017, 05:22 PM	#1
jasonjmb Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2017 Device: kindle	html toc with epub 3.0 Hi, I hope I am posting my question in the right section. My question has to do with nav.xhtml and epub 3.0. I export my books from LibreOffice using eLaix. It used to export in epub 2.0 and everything was fine. I use Sigil to generate both the logical as well as html table of contents. Now eLaix started exporting in epub 3.0. Sigil does not allow manually changing it back to 2.0 and I am not sure what to do with the html toc. The trouble maker is nav.xhtml. Since epub 3.0 requires this file, Sigil generates it but takes it out of the linear order in the spine. From what I've read, some devices will ignore this and still display it. So I am faced with two options: 1. Use Sigil to generate the html toc (TOC.xhtml) and delete nav.xhtml from the spine so that it never shows up. 2. Use nav.xhtml as the html toc (forget about TOC.xhtml) and change its "linear" property to yes. Am I understanding the situation correctly? Any recommendations?

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04-07-2017, 08:42 PM	#2
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,768 Karma: 54401244 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	I use the (standalone) Unpack_epub tool, free from the folk at Atlantis WP to edit the OPF, changing the version 3.0 to 2.0, save, then click repack Now Sigil is happy to open, gen your NCX, then TOC (the TOC tool needs the NCX) Then you can restore the 3.0 value if you want

04-07-2017, 08:59 PM	#3
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 7,626 Karma: 5433388 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	Yes, a nav.xhtml is required as it is both a machine and human readable (ie it effectively replaces the toc.ncx). That said you can easily use Sigil to create an additional human readable only toc.xhtml if you would prefer and include it in the spine with linear yes and remove the nav.xhtml from the spine or simply leave it as linear no.

04-08-2017, 09:49 AM	#4
jasonjmb Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2017 Device: kindle	KevinH and theducks, thank you very much! I am much more comfortable with the situation now. However, I am still wondering what is the best practice. Specifically: 1. Is epub 2.0 preferred if I am making a traditional fiction/nonfiction with little graphics and no media? 2. If I use epub 3.0, should I just use the nav.xhtml (the TOC.xhtml now seems redundant).

04-08-2017, 09:53 AM	#5
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,866 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	In an ePub 3 that you are trying to make backwards compatible, for the ToC, you only need the NCX and NAV ToC. You do not need any other ToC. Me, I'd convert to ePub 2 and forget the NAV ToC.

04-09-2017, 12:07 PM	#7
jasonjmb Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2017 Device: kindle	well, I did discover that nav.xhtml allows me to specify where Kindle opens the book at. I was able to start my book at the toc (appropriate for an anthology of short stories) by labeling it "text" in nav.xhtml.

04-09-2017, 08:54 PM	#9
jasonjmb Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2017 Device: kindle	I have trouble starting my book at the cover in Kindle. So, I specify cover.xhtml as "text" in nav.xhtml, Kindle indeed shows my cover first. However, it also duplicates the cover, because my understanding is that, when I specify cover.xhtml as the "cover", kindle ignores the file and generates a cover on its own. So when I specify cover.xhtml also as "text", it then includes it after the cover it generated on its own. I am curious to know how to show the cover in Kindle the right way.

04-16-2017, 09:15 AM	#11
jasonjmb Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2017 Device: kindle	I am mystified as to how to tell Kindle to open to the cover. I can use the "text" semantics to open the book anywhere else, but as you pointed out, my html cover is not supposed to be included in the book. your enlightenment on this matter would be much appreciated!

04-16-2017, 10:50 AM	#12
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,545 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	There are already many, many threads (some still ongoing) concerning the intricacies of manipulating the Kindle SRL (none of which are Sigil\|EPUB-specific\|dependent). I would prefer this not become another one.

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