About Word, letter-spacing and EPUB

[roger64]

Hi

We just know our tools. LibreOffice is also pretty good for styles...

I've found a cumbersome way to make Word display my titles (I'll let go the notes for the time being).

I had previously -painfully- modified the styles of the titles of the inbuilt .dotm template and saved the changes under a new template name.

Then, my odt file being displayed, I select the Developer tab, then the Add_in tab (Compléments in French); I select this new template and attach it to the current file. The titles are then displayed correctly. However, it looks like an unnatural process...

Question: Is there a way to select my own template by default? I mean, when I open an odt, I would like to see that my template is attached automatically. This would be cleaner.

[BetterRed]

The default template in Word is by definition Normal.dotm, you just modify it to what you want. That will never change, too many users have it hard coded into their bespoke applications (for which they've likely as not lost the Fortran code) and business processes - legacy, legacy, makes the world go around rather than going forward.

Google for "How to Change Normal template in Word 2013?"

In Word 2010 I've added the View Macros menu (which includes my Attach blah blah template macro) to the Quick Access (QA) toolbar - which is in the title bar. I think 2013 is similar - right click in the title bar and select customise QA bar.

And re Policepardfaut spans, my guess it relates to the customised font, why don't you try substituting something mundane like Times Roman for the customised font - if the symptoms (spurious spans) disappear you will at least know the cause if not the cure - wish my medicos would do something similar.

BR

[roger64]

Here are some screenshots

The first screenshot is what I see when I click on "add-in". The LO template (LinLibertine.ott) is present (see green rectangle) but Word does not make any use of it. If I do nothing, it will use the Normal.dotm template so I have better do something.

When I click to attacher ("join"), I can see in the second screenshot the two Word templates availables. I select the second one -Normalvertu.dotm- which is slightly customized (see green rectangle). After clicking on it; it will take the place of LinLibertine.ott.

I would like to join automatically this second template with every new odt file

Police par défaut:

When you click on Organize (bottom left of first screenshot), this third screenshot appear. You can find Police par défaut twice, in the .dotm template and in my odt file (see green rectangles). In both places, it cannot be suppressed because it is said to be "integrated".

It will grow and mutiply within the odt file (file inflates by at least 15%) but stay hidden. It will appear on the EPUB in hundreds, even thousands of places... But it is empty and easy to destroy. Just a parasite.

I would like to dis"integrate" it.

[BetterRed]

Just copy Normalvertu.dotm to Normal.dotm.

As I said before the name of the default template is fixed as Normal.dotm, you might not like it that way, but that is the way it has been for a very long time. The genesis of Word goes back to Xerox's Alto Bravo which was released in the mid '70's.

Look up Charles Simonyi who worked on Bravo, was head hunted by Gates, and headed up the Office division (the MS cash cow) for a long time. He left MS a few years ago and started up Intentional Software, which he sold to MS last week for an undisclosed sum.

Probably enough to pay for another couple of holidays on the ISS, build a new house (this one is getting a bit cramped), and park a fleet of these in exotic locations

Capitalism Rocks

BR

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Just copy Normalvertu.dotm to Normal.dotm.

As I said before the name of the default template is fixed as Normal.dotm, you might not like it that way, but that is the way it has been for a very long time. The genesis of Word goes back to Xerox's Alto Bravo which was released in the mid '70's.

Look up Charles Simonyi who worked on Bravo, was head hunted by Gates, and headed up the Office division (the MS cash cow) for a long time. He left MS a few years ago and started up Intentional Software, which he sold to MS last week for an undisclosed sum.

Probably enough to pay for another couple of holidays on the ISS, build a new house (this one is getting a bit cramped), and park a fleet of these in exotic locations

Capitalism Rocks

BR

Well....

I haven't gotten very far, in my investigation, but the fact that there's a STYLE, named "Police par defaut" in the Word file might have something to do with this. I tested V4, simply by exporting it to HTML, and sure enough, I found the spans. The spans are reflecting "underlying properties," apparently.

This style does NOT appear in the V3.odt file. Not as the .odt; not when I convert it to Word, and not when I export it to HTML.

Something is being done, in the process that alters the V3 file. It's not being done in Word.

Something is altered, in the (macro?/clip?) that you're running, to do whatever it is, between the time you complete 3, and then use that program to make your typographic changes. That alteration is changing something that in turn, causes these spans--which are showing up quite simply becuase there's a named style. Just open the Styles panel, on the right (or wherever you open it) and scroll down, you'll see it right there.

So, as near as I can tell, having opened the file (v3), altered it, typed in it, etc., saved it and exported it to HTML--no Police-whatever spans are being created. It's not Word, in and of itself--it's that "nice program" that you're using.

If I were a betting woman...I'd wonder if it's not related to how the French create various letter forms. Or ligatures, etc. Something that doesn't just show up as a font change.

Offered FWIW.

I'm not sure if your last post, about "just knowing your tools" was related to my question about mapping styles, but you're doing something wrong. It shouldn't be remotely this hard to just map odt styles to Word, using reserved names like Heading 2, etc. BetterRed and Toxaris have WAAAAAY better macro-fu and VBA-fu than i do, and can probably help you with a faster way to do that, but this should be MUCH easier than what you've described.

Hope that helps. And you might want to ask BR or Tox to look into that Macro, too, because 99%, that's causing the Police par dfaut spans. I'm a little surprised, to be honest, that you didn't notice the named style--which is always the very FIRST place I look for the appearance of mystery spans. 99x out of 100, when it comes to Word output, a span doesn't simply appear. It's the offspring of a named Style.

Hitch

[elibrarian]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well....

I haven't gotten very far, in my investigation, but the fact that there's a STYLE, named "Police par defaut" in the Word file might have something to do with this. I tested V4, simply by exporting it to HTML, and sure enough, I found the spans. The spans are reflecting "underlying properties," apparently.

Hitch

I guess you won't find a "Police par defaut", since you're using an english/american MSWord. AFAIK "Police par defaut" translates to "Default Paragraph Font" in english (and "Standardskrifttype i afsnit" in danish ) It's one of the three or four standard styles found in every Word document.

When exporting to HTML it's the one usually called msoNormal (in every international and local language version of Word, I think)

Regards,

Kim

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by elibrarian

I guess you won't find a "Police par defaut", since you're using an english/american MSWord. AFAIK "Police par defaut" translates to "Default Paragraph Font" in english (and "Standardskrifttype i afsnit" in danish ) It's one of the three or four standard styles found in every Word document.

When exporting to HTML it's the one usually called msoNormal (in every international and local language version of Word, I think)

Regards,

Kim

Kim:

We already determined that, the meaning of the span name, upthread. It's not MSoNormal, or a replacement for it. This is a set of spans that are occurring inside the main paragraph styles. It's definitely not one of the 3-4 standard styles that I've seen, in every document. We do a lot of non-English titles--French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Romanian (Chinese, Japanese) etc. And I've never seen this before.

Moreover, I modified the text in the file that Roger sent me. The OP's discussion was, these spans were showing up, for no apparent reason, and Roger wanted Word to "stop inserting them." I took his source .odt document, made some normal modifications (text, etc.), saved it, and then exported it to HTML. No ""Police par defaut" spans or style. It is absolutely not the "MsoNormal" of "not-English."

Roger's "v4" of the same file, however--exported AFTER he runs some macro on it--is rife with them. And, of course, there's a matching named Style clearly visible in the Styles pane.

Based upon my experimentation, my inference/deduction is that these are being caused by his, Roger's, macro/clip. I suspect that perhaps this macro also adjusts some things that aren't instantly obvious in the Style that shows up--perhaps letter kerning, or leading, or ligatures, whatever. It then creates this named Style, as the result of the clip/macro, and thus, voila! (yes, yes, irony intended), named spans.

OK? Certainly open to different interpretations. Perhaps you'd like me to send you the files that Roger sent me, so you can experiment yourself?

Hitch

[elibrarian]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Kim:

OK? Certainly open to different interpretations. Perhaps you'd like me to send you the files that Roger sent me, so you can experiment yourself?

Hitch

Well, it was just a thought - Word occasionally sports some nasty habits of translating and doing other things behind the scenes.

You're welcome to pm me the files. I probably won't have time to look at them until the weekend, since my alter ego are rather busy with some other things regarding his civil work

regards,

Kim

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by elibrarian

Well, it was just a thought - Word occasionally sports some nasty habits of translating and doing other things behind the scenes.

You're welcome to pm me the files. I probably won't have time to look at them until the weekend, since my alter ego are rather busy with some other things regarding his civil work

regards,

Kim

Sure. Roger64, I assume you have no objections?

Hitch

[roger64]

Thank you very much for taking care of this thing.

I am too happy to see the search for the lost span spreading both continents!

BTW. The macro has been written some years ago by a friend of mine who used it in "Ebooks libres et gratuits" library. (Free and open ebooks). I will ask him if I can send it to you for examination purposes.

As it's a Word macro, it's twice an unknown territory for me.

[elibrarian]

Originally Posted by roger64

BTW. The macro has been written some years ago by a friend of mine who used it in "Ebooks libres et gratuits" library. (Free and open ebooks). I will ask him if I can send it to you for examination purposes.

As it's a Word macro, it's twice an unknown territory for me.

Thanks. Since it might be the main culprit, it would really be nice to have a look at the code.

Regards,

Kim

[Toxaris]

What does the macro actually do? Perhaps, if it is useful also for others, I could incorporate it into my add-in.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

What does the macro actually do? Perhaps, if it is useful also for others, I could incorporate it into my add-in.

It creates a "Police par defaut" Style class, with mystery attributes, which is thence slammed into any resulting html exports. :-)



On a serious note, I'll send the zip to Kim, Roger, but then, I suspect, my part here is done. I've determined that it's not Word, not per se. It's not creating those out of thin air. The original V3 odt doesn't have them, and NORMAL editing does not create them in Word or, obviously, any resulting output.

The only culprit--based upon what I know and have been told--is the macro, but if Roger has other "stuff" going on, he needs to tell us, because there's no way that I know of to forensically recreate the genesis of the "Police par defaut" Class/style, which is the step, obviously, before it becomes unwanted spans. Whatever it is, it's something that is, apparently, occurring outside of the direct interference in the file of the operator (Roger), and outside of his ability to espy the event. That makes me think, "macro."

(I also feel compelled to point out that you could easily build a regex that would wipe these out, in one-two passes, probably a hell of a lot faster than rewriting the macro.)



Hitch

[Toxaris]

I got that, but what is the purpose of the macro?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

I got that, but what is the purpose of the macro?

(sob).....I was being funny. Or, apparently, not.

I guess we'll find out!

Hitch