Libra KOReader merits compared to stock reader

[the.Mtn.Man]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

You do know that browsing by tags is very easy in KOReader, right?

Obviously I didn't know that, otherwise I wouldn't have stated it as a negative point.

But I also don't see any way to view my library as a list of books, which is my preference.

(And now having looked at the software again, it seems that sorting by tags is another one of the "hidden" features, because I can't figure out how to do it.)

[the.Mtn.Man]

Originally Posted by trekk

But once you have done this, it is default - you don't have to do it again, unless you want other defaults.
You can also use profiles to change different things all at once with just one tap. This needs some initial configuration, but it's not that complicated and you will be rewarded later.

Which brings me back to the point that KOReader is for the "power user", the guy who enjoys spending his afternoons tinkering in the garage as opposed to the guy who just wants to enjoy a leisurely drive through the country.

The option is there for those who want it (and I love the fact that Kobos are open devices that allow for this sort of customization), but, as you say, KOReader is not for everybody.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

Which brings me back to the point that KOReader is for the "power user", the guy who enjoys spending his afternoons tinkering in the garage as opposed to the guy who just wants to enjoy a leisurely drive through the country.

The option is there for those who want it (and I love the fact that Kobos are open devices that allow for this sort of customization), but, as you say, KOReader is not for everybody.

I'd only argue against the 'power user' descriptor because a lot of what KOReader allows you you to do can be achieved in the built in reader with patches, config edits, etc. at least for epub/kepub. Are there things koreader allows that you can't do sure, but it comes at a steep price in terms of loading times. It's less so a power user and more so someone who doesn't want to do the tweaks in multiple other ways opting to go with an all in one solution.

KOreader shines for PDFs where it becomes demonstrably better than the built in reader.

I am by no means trying to diminish KOreader, it's fantastic at some things, but it's a trade off in other things.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

I'd only argue against the 'power user' descriptor because a lot of what KOReader allows you you to do can be achieved in the built in reader with patches, config edits, etc. at least for epub/kepub. Are there things koreader allows that you can't do sure, but it comes at a steep price in terms of loading times. It's less so a power user and more so someone who doesn't want to do the tweaks in multiple other ways opting to go with an all in one solution.

KOreader shines for PDFs where it becomes demonstrably better than the built in reader.

I am by no means trying to diminish KOreader, it's fantastic at some things, but it's a trade off in other things.

Yeah, this. I like to tinker from time to time; I patch my Kobos, edit my ebooks and use Calibre rather heavily. But I didn't find KOReader to be of any use to me. The text and layout options I like I already had via patches and editing; it was slower with large books (of which I have many) than the stock reader; and I'm no fan of the folder system on an ereader. So, for me, there were no real benefits in using KOReader, plus there was a distinct disadvantage (re large books). And I don't think I can be classified as a person who just wants to read and hates tinkering.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

Obviously I didn't know that, otherwise I wouldn't have stated it as a negative point.

But I also don't see any way to view my library as a list of books, which is my preference.

(And now having looked at the software again, it seems that sorting by tags is another one of the "hidden" features, because I can't figure out how to do it.)

Your definition of "hidden" appears to be "if it doesn't hit me in the face, it's hidden"
Tap Search, tap Calibre metadata search, Tap Browse Tags. That's an excruciatingly exhausting THREE WHOLE TAPS. If that's your definition of "spending a whole afternoon tinkering", your afternoons are much shorter than mine.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

Which brings me back to the point that KOReader is for the "power user", the guy who enjoys spending his afternoons tinkering in the garage as opposed to the guy who just wants to enjoy a leisurely drive through the country.

In the 2.5 years I spent using the stock reader exclusively, I spent WAY more time "tinkering" by applying patches to each new firmware update than I have spent adjusting my KOReader. I have 5 default style tweaks, setting them took me about 5 minutes once I had found where they were - which took only as long as asking here and getting the answer. Since then, my "tinkering time" is down to basically zero. And I have only ever edited ONE book in Calibre, one that even KOReader overrides couldn't make readable.

My point is not that KOReader is better than stock (though it suits me better, and the gestures are AWESOME). My point is that insisting it takes much more TIME to configure is pure and utter baloney, bakvaas, balderdash, bovine fecal matter.

It is simply a different allocation of time. Some choose to edit each and every book they read, and apply each set of preferred patches to each new Kobo firmware update. That all takes time. It certainly takes no less time than setting up a few default overrides in KOreader. To each their own, but do let's try to be honest and comprehensive in assessing the options.

[Toodu]

Originally Posted by carmik

Hello everybody!

My first post in this forum and a newbie one at that: I was wondering whether KOreader would be better compared to the native reader.

I'm mainly reading from epubs transferred from calibre (most likely kepub format). Which advantages / disadvantages does it have compared to the stock reader? Is battery life the same? Scrolling speed? Stability?

Thanks for any information you might be able to provide.

I like to use KOreader on my p10w, it work well. But epub open on the native reader also good ennough, but I always use KOreader to manage my books.

[the.Mtn.Man]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Your definition of "hidden" appears to be "if it doesn't hit me in the face, it's hidden"
Tap Search, tap Calibre metadata search, Tap Browse Tags. That's an excruciatingly exhausting THREE WHOLE TAPS. If that's your definition of "spending a whole afternoon tinkering", your afternoons are much shorter than mine.

There's no need to get your nose out of joint. We're just discussing opinions.

But since you asked, I consider a feature to be "hidden" if it's not obvious to an average user. It should be "Search > Browse By Tags", or better yet, a top level menu item that simply says, "Browse By Tags". Hiding this feature two layers deep under "Calibre metadata search" is not obvious and is poor interface design.

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

To each their own, but do let's try to be honest and comprehensive in assessing the options.

Again, we're just discussing opinions here. The fact that you happen to disagree doesn't make me dishonest. You really need to get over yourself.

[ps67]

Originally Posted by carmik

@ps67: Perfect, thanks mate! I'm considering enabling and then using Bookerly (on kepubs of course). Do you foresee any major incompatibilities/issues by doing so?

Sorry for answering so late but I didn't see Your post. The only issue may be that in some words You obtain double spaced letters. This is the reason why I don't use that hidden feature.

[carmik]

Originally Posted by ps67

Sorry for answering so late but I didn't see Your post. The only issue may be that in some words You obtain double spaced letters. This is the reason why I don't use that hidden feature.

Strange, I've been reading in Nickel with Bookerly, without inserting the webkitTextRendering=optimizelegibility line and I don't think I've come across any double-spaced letters. Perhaps because I did not enable ligatures?

[pazos]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

It should be "Search > Browse By Tags", or better yet, a top level menu item that simply says, "Browse By Tags". Hiding this feature two layers deep under "Calibre metadata search" is not obvious and is poor interface design.

Definitly there're some constraits in the UI design.

Above that each user might want to place the features it likes in the top level menu and consider other options as poor interface design

At the same time most users are overwhelmed by all available options.

And we all hate unlimited nested menus.

Solutions?:

easy: assign actions to gestures, so you can browse by tags with a single tap or any other gesture.

hard: write your own menu. It is already supported!

My suggestion would be the easier one plus disabling all plugins you don't need (to reduce the clutter & nested menus).

Is it for an average Joe?, probably not. I'm still amazed with how this app started as a fun hack, got traction and now is used by (some) average users.

When I used it for the first time,in 2014, it was clear it was something for enthusiasts.

And now it jumped out of the developer corner and we're comparing it with commercial solutions from Amazon and Rakuten? It is kind of shocking.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by pazos

easy: assign actions to gestures, so you can browse by tags with a single tap or any other gesture.

I'm reading a big (1K page) book right now on the stock reader, and the thing I most are my personalized gestures. I'll be back to KOReader and my corner taps as soon as I'm done with this experiement in reading a store bought Kobo kepub downloaded instead of sideloaded

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

But since you asked, I consider a feature to be "hidden" if it's not obvious to an average user. It should be "Search > Browse By Tags", or better yet, a top level menu item that simply says, "Browse By Tags". Hiding this feature two layers deep under "Calibre metadata search" is not obvious and is poor interface design.

I largely agree with you that KOReader has UI conventions that are non-obvious. I had to internet search for how to apply formatting by default to all books, because the long-press thing never occurred to me, and there were no affordances that made it obvious. It's extremely "UI designed by programmers" rather than by UX designers.

But... the virtue of programmer-UI is that even if the UI conventions they choose aren't obvious, they're generally consistent. Once you get in the KOReader mindset, and start to internalize how it's designed and how its authors would have thought about features, things get more "intuitive." (Which is probably why your interlocutor is so astonished that these things seem non-obvious: If you've gotten your mind into the place where they're obvious, you won't realize how opaque they are to newcomers.)

But also also, the knocks on KOReader as unintuitive are kind of a "relative to what" situation. If you're happy with an out-of-the-box Kobo reader, well, carry on and enjoy your untroubled existence. But when I tried it, I found lots of things that needed "edit this hidden setting in a config file" (like widow/orphan suppression -- I read at big text sizes, and this is annoying with that) or that couldn't be done on-device at all, like overriding publisher justification settings in some books (large text and full justification don't go together well).

If you are a Calibre power-user and are happy installing tweaks and extensions and editing config files, then... yeah, okay, sure, you could fix those things and continue using the base Kobo software. But I don't use Calibre (I do direct Dropbox integration so I never need to plug the Kobo into a computer to get books on it), and I found KOReader to be easier than piles of tweaks.

All that to the side, though, the real "I can't go back ever" win of KOReader for me was Progress Sync. I use my Kobo at home, but I don't take it with me to the grocery store or whatever, and yet I still want to read my book when I'm standing in line or otherwise have a few minutes free. Kobo's default reader simply doesn't sync to the mobile app at all for side-loaded books (or at least it didn't used to a few years ago when I last tried it). But KOReader does, so I can get a cross-device sync experience smoothly. Plus, KOReader for Android is much nicer than the Kobo Android app, even if it would sync.

Plus, the part where page turns are faster in KOReader matters a lot. It's a small thing in a lot of ways, but "turn the page" is like the #1 most frequent interaction I will have with whatever e-reader software I'm using, and so an improvement there is huge.

[Krios]

I first tried KOReader on Pocketbook, 3 or 4 years ago, it was not great experience.

Installed it again this year, on both Libra 2 and Inkpad 3 and it was much better, i was really impressed by its typography, it's comparable to Kobo epub renderer, and light years ahead of kebub renderer, (i dont understand why Kobo still hasn't improved Kepub renderer typography, that should be most important thing in ereader).

I agree with others about UI, not a fan of it (mainly main menu, file browser part, i like settings and number of ways to customize book), and it's only reason why i still don't use KOReader regularly.

[the.Mtn.Man]

Originally Posted by pazos

Definitly there're some constraits in the UI design.

Above that each user might want to place the features it likes in the top level menu and consider other options as poor interface design

At the same time most users are overwhelmed by all available options.

And we all hate unlimited nested menus.

Solutions?:

easy: assign actions to gestures, so you can browse by tags with a single tap or any other gesture.

hard: write your own menu. It is already supported!

My suggestion would be the easier one plus disabling all plugins you don't need (to reduce the clutter & nested menus).

Is it for an average Joe?, probably not. I'm still amazed with how this app started as a fun hack, got traction and now is used by (some) average users.

When I used it for the first time,in 2014, it was clear it was something for enthusiasts.

And now it jumped out of the developer corner and we're comparing it with commercial solutions from Amazon and Rakuten? It is kind of shocking.

Yes, I'm not trying to take anything away from KOReader. It's a wonderful alternative for those who want to take the time to beat it into submission, and I stand by my opinion that the stock reader is the "It just works" option for the rest of us.