Meta admits to training LLM AI with terabytes of torrented copyrighted works.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Graham44

That,s a web search summary not a specific AI generated answer...

I thought it was an AI generated response with information gathered from doing a web search.

I tried a free chatGPT and asked it the same question, which it answered and then asked it to elaborate which it did. Zero references in any of it

I then asked it where it retrieved this information, it wouldn't say it just said ''The response provided is based on the context and knowledge programmed into me'' - well that's a lie/ misinformation, it can't all be programmed into it , it must have gathered the information from some external source.

Google Gemini didn't give specific sources either.

If I asked you a question, that you were very knowledgeable about, could you list all the references that you used?

[DNSB]

Actually, I will happily quote sources when answering questions. Perhaps not all of them but a decent sized sample. A left over from a company I worked for quite a while and the supervisors seemed to think they were running a debate team. For some strange reason, most of the people I know prefer not to ask me questions.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Actually, I will happily quote sources when answering questions. Perhaps not all of them but a decent sized sample. A left over from a company I worked for quite a while and the supervisors seemed to think they were running a debate team. For some strange reason, most of the people I know prefer not to ask me questions.

Sure, you will if asked, you are one of the nice people.

Personally, many times, if someone asked me where I got a piece of information, or some specific knowledge, I can't recall the exact source. I could probably go through some manuals, or do an internet search, but I wouldn't be sure if that was where I originally got the information from (which seems apropos of the A.I./copyright/citation discussion).

There seems to be a grey slope between copyright and knowledge.

[John F]

And I did a google search on "Is Plagiarism illegal?"

And at the top of the page, it said "AI overview", it gave an answer, and some links.

When I googled "google AI overview", it came up with:

Google AI Overviews are generative AI summaries that appear prominently in Google Search results, offering quick, concise answers to queries by synthesizing information from multiple sources, often before organic listings

[ownedbycats]

You can get rid of the AI summaries by swearing (minus it out to not affect results).

"is plagarism -fucking illegal?" or "do single a batteries -fucking exist" (yes, they were for vacuum tubes)

[Quoth]

No, the A cells were for torches. The radios used B cells for grid (-4.5V to -12V) and later B cells for HT (45V to 126V packs approx). All dry radios were later and used D to G cells inn packs for filaments. Earlier radios from 1921 but before 1938 (but still up to 1950) used lead Acid cells for filaments: 2, 4 or 6V.

The AA was smaller than A (originally the smallest) and developed for "fountain pen sized" torches, called pen-lights, though fatter than fountain pens. Popular in WWI trenches (1914, not 1917!).

The A, AA, B, C, D, E, F, G labels date from about 1947, but most of those sizes existed before 1914, many before 1900. Radios didn't come into common consumer use till 1921-1922. http://www.blaukatz.com

All about old radios https://www.radiomuseum.org

The 3 x B cells is still used in the 4.5V pack still sold in Europe and 4 x F or 8 x F the 6V lantern packs (spring or terminal tops) more commonly still sold in Europe. AA, C and D are still separately sold. As is AAA and AAAA.

LLMs are junk.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Quoth

No, the A cells were for torches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lete_batteries

Eveready 742 - Used to provide power to the filament of a vacuum tube.

[Quoth]

The 742 is called an A battery, because it's for filaments, the A power rail. It's not an A size cell. Many different size packs from 1.5V to 12V were used for the A rail. This A (function) battery happens to be 1.5V.

The A size cell was smaller than a B Cell and larger than AA, and cylindrical.
A cell cylindrical mm = 49 high x 17 diameter. IEC R23 Znc capacity 2200mAH

The HT was called the B power rail. The 762-S is not a B size cell, which is 1.5V, it's 45V.

The GB or C battery was for Grid Bias. It is not a C cell, but was often 3 to 8 "B" size cells.

The USA used the terms A, B and C for the Filament, High Tension (HT) and Grid Bias batteries probably from 1920s. The A battery was 2, 4 or 6V before Sylvania developed the 1.4V filaments in 1938, then RCA miniaturised them in 1941. Then the A battery was 1.5, or 7.5V on a set that had series filament.

Later the names AA, A, B, C, D, E, F, G where given to basic single round cells in the USA, maybe in 1946 or 1947. They had maker specific names before that. Ever Ready in the UK used:
U7 = AA
U10 = B
U11 = C
U2 = D

A USA #6 was a UK Flag. An enormous round cell used for servant flag boxes, Railways, electric powered penulum clocks. The same size is used inside in the round Zinc-Air Fencer power pack (I forget if 5 or 6, 7.5V or 9V, agfes since I took one apart.). Some cars without dynamo and crank starter might have used a #6 to assist the magneto driven ignition during cranking. Acetylene based lamps!

A little knowledge is dangerous.
A D (UK = U2) or a pair of D in parallel was used in the 1941 "Lunch box" AKA "Personal Radios" that were made from 1941 to 1950s as the "A" battery.

The A size round cell, AFAIK, was never used in radios. Certainly in decades of restoring battery valve/tube radios, and researching old catalogues I never saw it.

Even for a torch the A cell was rare and I don't see any evidence it was used outside of USA. No UK or European equivalents found.

ALL the lettered Cells AAAA, AAA, AA, A, B, C, E, F, G are round (cylindrical). Most not used ofr radio. There is also an N cell AKA Lady, that is between AA and AAA in diameter and about 2/3rds length. I convert Electret mics to use two as the capsules are marginal at 1V to 1.6V (the regular cell) and are better at 2V to 3.2V (2 x N cells).

EDIT
Actually I see the Wikipedia page does mention that one of the Lithium cells is almost the size of an A size cell. The 18490 is maybe close, but of course totally the wrong voltage.

[jhowell]

From OpenAI's proposals for the U.S. AI Action Plan published March 13:

A copyright strategy that promotes the freedom to learn: America's robust, balanced intellectual property system has long been key to our global leadership on innovation. We propose a copyright strategy that would extend the system's role into the Intelligence Age by protecting the rights and interests of content creators while also protecting America's AI leadership and national security. The federal government can both secure Americans' freedom to learn from AI, and avoid forfeiting our AI lead to the PRC by preserving American AI models' ability to learn from copyrighted material.

[Quoth]

A licence to steal.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by Quoth

A licence to steal.

Philosophical question. If a business hires an employee for their expertise in a subject matter and they learned it from pirated content, is that not also stealing?

[DNSB]

Don't ask, don't tell.

[Quoth]

Taggart :donor:
@mttaggart@infosec.exchange
Think the language models that cite their sources are safer? Think again:

https://www.cjr.org/tow_center/we-co...iting-news.php

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Philosophical question. If a business hires an employee for their expertise in a subject matter and they learned it from pirated content, is that not also stealing?

The employee is guilty, unless the business engaged the person to do it.

In the case of LLM, the business is engaging the the tool directly, so it's not even comparable.

IMO this isn't a philosophical question, nor a reasonable comparison. What sort of expertise? A pirate copy of a book? That can't be directly used even if bought without permission of the rights holder.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The employee is guilty, unless the business engaged the person to do it.

In the case of LLM, the business is engaging the the tool directly, so it's not even comparable.

IMO this isn't a philosophical question, nor a reasonable comparison. What sort of expertise? A pirate copy of a book? That can't be directly used even if bought without permission of the rights holder.

It could be pirated lectures or lecture notes or a set of books. Doesn't really matter. Let's say expertise in web design. Is it stealing if the employee uses their "unlicensed" knowledge of web design to build the company webpage?