The abysmal pricing of ebooks...

[Spellbot 5000]

So I'm fairly new to ebooks and ereaders in general. Lulled into complacency by the low prices of Kindle book prices, I jumped right into the whole scene with a Cybook Gen3, and I'm now completely taken aback by the prices on books anywhere approaching new.

Since I'm primarily a SF reader, my early purchases were a lot of sci-fi classics by the masters; Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke, and their contemporaries. These were cheap titles, and I thought the future looked rosy for ebooks. Now that I've started to look for some more recent titles, I'm completely floored that I'm seeing prices of $20+. Double-u, Tee, Eff?!? I can understand if it's a brand new book just out in hardcover, but hardcovers that have been out a year, or even books now in paperback go for the same damn price?!?

The first book I was looking for was Spook Country by Gibson. $20 at most sites. The book is out in bloody paperback for $10, and you can still get the damn hardcover for $12! You know, physical books that they had to destroy trees to make and get a whole manufacturing and shipping process to get in peoples hands. And I have to pay almost double for a manuscript file that was run through an ebook creator program? What is going on here?

I've read several threads where people have said that the ebook retailers drag their feet when it comes to updating prices for current books, but the problem seems more endemic than that. Do companies like BooksonBoard, Fictionwise, or Mobipocket respond to questions/requests for lower prices on books where the physical editions are already far cheaper than the digital versions?

[Joerg_Mosthaf]

Well, if you like SF then www.baen.com is always good. They have a lot of free ebooks and AFAIK all new books are $5. Or you could just buy a webscription and get 5 Books for $15.

[Spellbot 5000]

Thanks for the tip! With the prices the way they are, I'll be on the lookout for deals like never before.

[zelda_pinwheel]

prices are definitely one of the biggest obstacles to more widespread acceptance of ebooks. like you, i can't justify paying full hardcover price for an ebook (not even when it's new ! sorry), and this sometimes prevents me from buying a book, which i will try to get at the library instead.

the ebook industry is still in its infancy, and i think it's important for us, as consumers, to participate in the form it will take. we can do this by trying to make our voices heard to the publishers ; i have written to a couple of publishers to ask them about their intentions of making digital editions of their books available, and also to let them know that i won't buy overpriced books. a lot of people talk about voting with your pocketbook, and refusing to buy books with drm at outrageous prices ; i think this is a good idea too, but it's best to do so while also letting the publishers know *why* you are not buying their books, so they don't interpret the lack of sales as a lack of interest.

in this thread we discussed penguin's prices and a few of us wrote to them (you'll find the contact info in the thread, if you would like to do the same ) ; we got back identical noncommittal replies, but i think it's a valid effort nonetheless and the more people write to them the better ; hopefully they will eventually be forced to listen.

i would encourage you to send an email to the publisher whenever you see an ebook priced the same as a new hardcover, *especially* if the hardcover is already available for less. in this specific case, i've heard that some booksellers are quite responsive, and will mark down the books if you alert them, so you should also write to Fictionwise or Books on Board or wherever you are shopping for ebooks.

[cstross]

Originally Posted by Spellbot 5000

Now that I've started to look for some more recent titles, I'm completely floored that I'm seeing prices of $20+. Double-u, Tee, Eff?!? I can understand if it's a brand new book just out in hardcover, but hardcovers that have been out a year, or even books now in paperback go for the same damn price?!?

It's all about internal publishing industry politics.

1. All the major publishing imprints are divisions of large multinational media conglomerates these days. For example: if Ace or Roc go bankrupt, don't expect to read about it in the Financial Times -- they're units of Penguin Group, which in turn is part of Penguin-Putnam, who happen to also publish the FT.

2. The execs in charge of the publishing units are, like execs in any other multinational, expected to contribute to the corporate bottom line -- or else.

3. The structure of these publishing units is geared around a production pipeline that takes in manuscripts at one end and ships provisions to a warehouse for distribution via retail outlets at the other, typically processing several books per week. This process is reflected in the rights contracts that their legal departments negotiate with the authors. It is very hard to change this structure because it's How The Industry Works. (Which is inviolable, because the publishing industry works the way it does because its practices are the vector sum of all practices that have not caused some other publisher to go bankrupt at some previous point in the past two hundred years. In other words, it doesn't make sense to look at what it does, you need to understand it by looking at what it doesn't do.)

4. Consequently, ebooks are generated by the same production process as dead tree books, and are "shipped" to an imaginary "warehouse" from which copies are distributed to imaginary "wholesalers" like, say, Fictionwise.

4a. It is worth noting at this point that the cost of paper-and-ink contributes maybe 10% of the cover price of a novel. Another 10% goes to the author (plus or minus), about 10% goes to the publisher in profits, and 70% is gobbled up by the wholesale and retail supply chain.

5. This means that there's little or no flexibility in the process, and the publishers can't easily cut their overheads by redesigning the publishing pipeline to work sensibly.

6. They recognize that they could boost ebook sales by cutting the prices. But if they did that, they'd risk cannibalizing the sales of their dead-tree editions, and reducing their profitability. Their hands are tied so they can't streamline their processes to make a bigger profit on the ebooks; if they cut the ebook prices by even 10% below the dead-tree prices, they're eating into their profits. And that brings us round to point #2 above.

7. Moreover, ebook sales of DRM'd high-cover items are so piss-poor -- figures in double digits are not uncommon, compared to the four to five digit sales expected of a hardcover -- that there's no pay off in sight to act as an incentive for executive risk-taking (like, oh, selling ebooks for what everyone understands is a realistic price).

Finally,

8. You try selling a novel to a major publisher without giving them the ebook rights! I've tried it, and my agent just gets knocked back -- withholding ebook rights is a deal-breaker, because despite all of the above nonsense, everyone knows that ebook rights are going to be worth something sooner or later. So they insist on buying them, even though they can't use them effectively. And at the end of the day, we writers have to earn a living so we can eat and excrete more of the product, so we knuckle under.

[MickeyC]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

prices are definitely one of the biggest obstacles to more widespread acceptance of ebooks. like you, i can't justify paying full hardcover price for an ebook (not even when it's new ! sorry), and this sometimes prevents me from buying a book, which i will try to get at the library instead.

the ebook industry is still in its infancy, and i think it's important for us, as consumers, to participate in the form it will take.

Zelda, you are absolutely right.

Right now ebook publishers are trying to make a fast buck with unnecessarily high prices. In fact, in a previous thread, someone (I expect he was from the ebook industry) argued that we had to pay more because of the convenience of buying ebooks versus driving to a bookstore to buy a pbook. IOW, his argument was similar to the justification for the odious 'Convenience charge' some cinemas and sports venues add to the bill; when, in reality, they are charging you for saving them money!

The truth is, the prices will ultimately be driven by supply and demand. But the ebook industry, like most, wants the answer to be low demand and high prices. The recording industry was like this over esongs till Steve Jobs grabbed them by the ears made them realize that selling to at a low cost would drive up demand and, since the price is so low, help reduce pirated songs.

Lots of other factors involved but that's a major one.

[TantricWarrior]

Originally Posted by cassidym

Zelda, you are absolutely right.

...The recording industry was like this over esongs till Steve Jobs grabbed them by the ears made them realize that selling to at a low cost would drive up demand and, since the price is so low, help reduce pirated songs.

Lots of other factors involved but that's a major one.

I wonder if Amazon will ever release the number of ebook/mag downloads... like Apple did after they passed the millionth iTunes downloads (then the billionth, etc,). Perhaps then we'll have something to point to when addressing publishers, "See, THEY made all this money on cheap downloads, now YOU do the same!"

Sigh, I love it when they kill a market (or induce rampant pirating) in the misguided attempt to make ever more money.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by cstross

5. This means that there's little or no flexibility in the process, and the publishers can't easily cut their overheads by redesigning the publishing pipeline to work sensibly.

I disagree with the above. Publishers could easily sell directly via the web. Yes, it would cost some overhead up front to set this up. Even if they don't sell direct there needs to be no wholesale. A web service could be set up to provide e-book files directly to retailers cutting out all the warehousing and distribution costs. Surly with the price of gas these days printing and distributing pbooks is much more expensive than it was even 3 years ago.

Originally Posted by cstross

6. They recognize that they could boost ebook sales by cutting the prices. But if they did that, they'd risk cannibalizing the sales of their dead-tree editions, and reducing their profitability. Their hands are tied so they can't streamline their processes to make a bigger profit on the ebooks; if they cut the ebook prices by even 10% below the dead-tree prices, they're eating into their profits. And that brings us round to point #2 above.

This is in no way true. Selling ebooks for less money can still bring more profit per unit even with lower retail prices.

Originally Posted by cstross

7. Moreover, ebook sales of DRM'd high-cover items are so piss-poor -- figures in double digits are not uncommon, compared to the four to five digit sales expected of a hardcover -- that there's no pay off in sight to act as an incentive for executive risk-taking (like, oh, selling ebooks for what everyone understands is a realistic price).

Well, duh! This is because people are of the opinion that a DRMed ebook should not be the same price as a pbook. With a pbook I can read the book anywhere, resell it used, give it away, whatever. With a DRMed ebook I can read it on one device and thats it. Why should I pay the same price for this one use ebook that I would pay for a pbook?

BOb

[HarryT]

It's fair to point out that if you go to a site like Fictionwise, you'll find many, many thousands of books at the US$5.99 price point, which seems enimently fair to me.

The average paperback book cost around £7-8 (say US$15) in the UK, so paying even $10 for an eBook is a considerable saving over paying a paperback here.

[Gudy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's fair to point out that if you go to a site like Fictionwise, you'll find many, many thousands of books at the US$5.99 price point, which seems enimently fair to me.

The average paperback book cost around £7-8 (say US$15) in the UK, so paying even $10 for an eBook is a considerable saving over paying a paperback here.

Apples and Oranges, or in that case, different markets and currencies. Last I checked, MMPBs are around USD 6-10, which means an e-book at USD 6 isn't so much a considerable savings as it is simply a fair price at the lower end of the spectrum.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I disagree with the above. Publishers could easily sell directly via the web.

No, they couldn't, at least not easily, as Mr Stross points out in his analysis. See specifically points 1 through 4.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

This is in no way true.

Is too. :-P

Seriously, accusing Mr Stross of being either an idiot or a liar strikes me as... disingenuous. His point, as I understand it, is that the publishing industry is f**ked up. It also has very good historical reasons to be as f**ked up as it is, which means its hard or nearly impossible to un-f**k. A couple thousand e-book fanatics writing enraged campaign letters aren't going to do the trick, I'm afraid. Amazon making serious bling with Kindle e-book sales, or Baen Books raking in enough money to make Croesus green with envy just might, but I don't think we are quite there, yet.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Gudy

Apples and Oranges, or in that case, different markets and currencies. Last I checked, MMPBs are around USD 6-10, which means an e-book at USD 6 isn't so much a considerable savings as it is simply a fair price at the lower end of the spectrum.

Be that as it may, with the current low value of the US$, for those of us in Europe, eBook stores which price their books in US$ offer extremely competitive prices.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Be that as it may, with the current low value of the US$, for those of us in Europe, eBook stores which price their books in US$ offer extremely competitive prices.

And you can buy the American editions of paperback books in some shops and they are usually much cheaper so you should compare the price for these books.

[HarryT]

Bookshops in the UK tend to merely replace the "$" with a "£" when it comes to setting prices .

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Bookshops in the UK tend to merely replace the "$" with a "£" when it comes to setting prices .

I seem to remember that for example Murder One did not do that. But you have to look for these few book shops that imports American editions.

In the Science Fiction Bookshop in Stockholm and American mass market paperback is 7-8 Euro and en UK edition is 10-11 Euro.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Bookshops in the UK tend to merely replace the "$" with a "£" when it comes to setting prices .

I recently bought the 5 volumes of Kasparov's 'Great Predecessors' chess books.

It was cheaper to buy them from Amazon (US) than from Amazon (UK) - even with the cost of international shipping .

(I did wonder if they'd just ship them from their UK warehouse as it would have saved them some expense - but they didn't.)