Kobo and Footnotes. Again.

[PeterT]

Sigh. I realize that tools like NickelMenu, CoolReader, Plato, koReader exist. The point I'm trying to make is that (for instance) on the Android eco system there are many MANY eReading applications; the majority of which play very loosely with the full ePub specification, even for epub 2. And these are in some cases, commercial, PAID for applications.

Yes; there are projects like Readium / Thorium which are open-source, and could in theory be ported.

Good luck finding a project, and developers.

Thats all from me on this topic.

[Aleron Ives]

Originally Posted by mramosch

I really don’t get your point!

You will find many members here who will ignore your actual question so they can provide you with irrelevant opinions, instead. It's best to just ignore them and move on.

Have you tried storing your MP3 files in ZIP files? IIRC Kobo's audiobooks use zipped MP3 files, not raw MP3 files. I don't remember what the extension should be, though. Maybe .mpz?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by mramosch

Well, the KOBO device is also intended to be used only with the KOBO reader app and nevertheless we are using NickelMenus and KOreaders and Jailbreaks etc.

That perhaps Kobo does not officially support NickelMenu or KoboReader. As for jailbreaking? I have never seen a jailbreak for a Kobo ereader. Could you point out an instance of one?

Originally Posted by mramosch

I really don’t get your point!

Yours is just an opinion and isn’t frankly very helpful here.

That you are complaining that a device with limited memory and RAM does not support features that you seem to fell MUST exist seems even less helpful.

Originally Posted by mramosch

And when you say that ”the audio functionality on Kobo ereaders is intended only for Kobo supplied Audiobooks” this isn’t really true either. Who says that? KOBO? Well in this case I would ask you why then KOBO offers this hack of zipping mp3 files into an archive and rename it to .mp3z in order to open up a kind of (I guess hardcoded) hack-ish JS epub or interface that lets us play these mp3s in the most rudimentary way possible?

Please note that the late davidfor found that functionality from his own exploration of the Kobo firmware and it is not a published/supported feature.

Originally Posted by mramosch

Some people here even mentioned that embedded audio works on their (older) devices…

On any Kobo that supports Bluetooth which is a total of 8 models. Well, actually the original Kobo supported Bluetooth but that was for connecting to a Blackberry device and there was no audio support. So if you don't own an Elipsa, Elipsa 2E, Libra 2, Libra Colour, Clara 2E, Clara BW, Clara Colour or Sage, you do not have audio support.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

Have you tried storing your MP3 files in ZIP files? IIRC Kobo's audiobooks use zipped MP3 files, not raw MP3 files. I don't remember what the extension should be, though. Maybe .mpz?

MP3Z is the extension. The original thread on Sideloading Audiobooks was back in November 2021.

[Quoth]

It's a fact that Kobo only supports their own audio books. It's a fact that the Kobo isn't as locked up as the Kindle, so there is no need for a jailbreak.
It's a fact that davidfor (passed on) figured out how to load and play 3rd party audio files. It's not a supported feature, so it's a fact that there is no specification.

It is partly an opinion and partly fact that a €50 phone works better for audiobooks or music with a decent GUI. I use the free Musicolet. It remembers position and has adjustible speed and pitch. Plays folders or playlists.

I've tried mp3s on Kindle and Android eink, so I didn't bother wasting time on the Kobo as it requires zipped mp3s and is BT only.

[mramosch]

Hi David,

Thanks for your thoughts on the subjects at hand. Here are mine ;-)

Originally Posted by DNSB

That perhaps Kobo does not officially support NickelMenu or KoboReader. As for jailbreaking? I have never seen a jailbreak for a Kobo ereader. Could you point out an instance of one?

As you can see I am using ’etc.’ and ’plurals’ here

• ”…nevertheless we are using NickelMenuS and KOreaderS and JailbreakS etc.”

just to make a point that we all enjoy using our devices for more than the vendors want us to use them for. To answer your question, no, I don’t know about any Jailbreak for KOBO devices.

Originally Posted by DNSB

That you are complaining that a device with limited memory and RAM does not support features that you seem to fell MUST exist seems even less helpful.

I am just stating that a device that obviously seems to be capable enough - because it already supports all the features that are discussed here - does not give us access to them.

• It can execute JS code officially (without any hacks but just not interactively with touches)
• It can play embedded Audio officially (as someone mentioned in another thread)
• It can play AudioBooks officially (when you buy them in their Store)
• It can play Audio (with the .mp3z file extension hack)

I am too long in this business to know that you charge a device or app by the features it has when you buy it and not what you are promised for the future for.

No wishful thinking on my part, just facts - so I guess it’s helpful after all.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Please note that the late davidfor found that functionality from his own exploration of the Kobo firmware and it is not a published/supported feature.

As far as I remember (but I could be wrong here) this feature was available to me on the newly purchased device before I installed the NickelMenu or KOReader. So I would consider this to be a feature offered by KOBO. I even think I saw this mentioned somewhere on their web site, but please correct me if I am wrong here…

But my question here is rather whether this UI that pops up when selecting a .mp3z book is just an epub that then obviously has interactivity with the JS layer enabled because it is interactive for start/stop/previous/next or it is hardcoded by KOBO to facilitate this functionality?

Any ideas? Is there any information about the discovery and implementation of this hack?


— — —

[mramosch]

Hi Quoth,

Originally Posted by Quoth

It is partly an opinion and partly fact that a €50 phone works better for audiobooks or music with a decent GUI. I use the free Musicolet. It remembers position and has adjustible speed and pitch. Plays folders or playlists.

On an e-Ink device intended to be used as a reading device I wouldn’t dare implement a database based MusicPlayer with playlists etc. I think you are completely right on this one! And I would even go that far and state that AudioBooks are no different to sequential tracks of a music album.

But my ‘TalkingBooks’ are intended to be read/listened along simultaneously for e.g. first or second language acquisition and to also be accessible for impaired folks. With no UI needed you can simply tap on the text and start/stop playback or you can double tap and it will start from the position you tapped on.

It also remembers position and can play at different speeds.

There is no need for zipped .mp3z files either because the audio is already embedded in the epub which as an alternative is also available as text only version. So if you hate audio on your device you can read the multilingual content without sound ;-)

Isn’t that the big talking point and what we say we want our e-Ink devices for? Distraction free consumption in places where we don’t wanna have our phones with us…


Take care!


— — —

[Quoth]

Eink is best for reading actual novels. Best reason to buy one (got one originally for Gutenberg). The Sony, Kindle, Kobo etc never advertised till recently for anything other than straight novels. Amazon & Kobo only mention their own Audio books as extra content.

The fact is eink is pretty rubbish for other than straight novels with some illustrations between paragraphs. Even the Android eink are extremely limited. You can run some players on my Android eink and some Android apps. Compatibility is poor and performance OK to abysmal even if it does work.

I'd think if you want multimedia (text with audio) and eink, you want to try a Meebook (relaunched Likebook) or Onyx Boox Android, not a Kobo. It will still be rubbish compared to a sub €300 tablet or sub €200 phoen with super matte screen, huge battery life and massive storage.

There is zero distraction on my Tablet (WiFi off unless doing chat) or PC (nothing does notifications except "Download Complete"). Almost no distractions on phone (only alerts for SMS or real phone calls).

[mramosch]

Yeah, I was looking at the ONYX devices earlier. The Boox Go 6 is now in a similar price range than the Clara BW and the Paperwhite.

It’s not that I am personally looking for a device right now but I am trying to find out how to make the functionality of my own produced books as accessible/compatible as possible to other people with different devices, in terms of my multilingual approach and simultaneous reading/listening experience.

As the books will mainly be fiction and literature (text focused) and catered to children and first/second language acquisition you actually don’t navigate that much even when simultaneously reading and listening. So this will not really jeopardize the main advantages of e-Ink.

What Android based e-Ink device do you rock?

It would be very interesting to know whether you would be able to run e.g. the BookFusion app (which natively supports AudioMediaOverlays) on your device. And above all I personally would really love to know whether BookFusion lets touches fall through in order to get JS executed on Android like it does on their iOS version.

KOBO is soooo close already if it weren’t for this stupid limitation to block events (on their e-Ink devices only) to reach the JS layer, which itself is already working perfectly.

That would open up a whole new world for dynamic content if applied respectfully.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by mramosch

What Android based e-Ink device do you rock?



That would open up a whole new world for dynamic content if applied respectfully.

I have one and I've carefully studied reviews on others. There is nothing to beat Kobo for actual novels with all the metadata via Calibre (Author, Title, subtitle, collection(s), series, blurb, Publisher info etc) and search/browse via Author, Title, subtitle, collection(s), series with various sort orders. Nothing else comes close.

My Nxtpaper 3.0 tablet (14.25″ TCL Nxtpaper 14 3:2 aspect) and the Nxtpaper 2.0 Tablet (approx. 16:10 aspect) and phone (Nxtpaper 11 and Nxtpaper 40) are equivalent to eink with the front light on. The Libra, Libra2 and Sage are only better when there's enough ambient light to read a paperback (not a POD version) and front light is off.

The Nxtpaper 10 is older and not so bright in daylight. Poor reviews. Maybe Nxtpaper 1.0. So I skipped it. The Nxtpaper 50 has poor reviews related to phone /Cell performance. Ignored it.

Sadly there is no 7" to 9" Nxtpaper 2.0 or 3.0 that has 4:3 or 3:2 aspect.


I don't want dynamic content in an ereader. Also no ebook retailer ships dynamic content. Amazon did for a while but compatibility was limited.

My favourite to read out loud is the original Libra, because the page turn buttons work perfectly. Ideally with light off.

My favourite to read novels is the Kobo Sage. Always with light off at home.

I've had or used six Kindle models, seven Kobo models (inc Elipsa), three Sony models, a Nook, iRiver, various Binatone (evil LCD screens but they worked), reMarkable (10.3″) and Boyue Likebook Mars 7.8″ Android (which works best for novels! However K9 mail, Lichess, musicplayer, Chrome & Firefox mostly work).

I found the Sage better than the Elipsa for notes. No difference Kobo or 3rd party MS/NPP pens. Now I do notes using Gboard (offline) finger to PC text on any of my phones, and Nebo on the Nxtpaper 11 (far superior to reMarkable, Elipsa, Sage, Lenovo X201 convertable laptop/tablet with Wacom pen & touch or OneNote on anything). I also had a W10 tablet, but it ran Debian better. Neither fish nor fowl due to stupid design of Win10.

I use the Nxtpaper 14 (Nxtpaper 3.0. 3:2 aspect and 14.25″) for anything that is too big for the 8″ Kobo Sage, or interactive, or locked to an app, or colour. First thing in 30 years of using PDFs that is portable and beats laptop / Workstation for them. Actually my 2002 laptop was better than all the later ones for A4 PDFs due to 1600 x 1200 rather than HDTV 1920 x 1080. I don't mind the workstation being a stupid 16:9 because it just over 23″ and 3840 x 2160 with a matte screen (though nothing like as good as Nxtpaper 2.0).
The Nxtpaper 14 is also the first portable device I've had that does webpages as well as the laptop or workstation. I've had 3 models of 10+ inch tablet before the Nxtpaper 11 and numerous smaller ones, including prototpye demos I built in 2007 & 2008.

I'd read 3 to 9 novels a week.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

It's a fact that Kobo only supports their own audio books. It's a fact that the Kobo isn't as locked up as the Kindle, so there is no need for a jailbreak.
It's a fact that davidfor (passed on) figured out how to load and play 3rd party audio files. It's not a supported feature, so it's a fact that there is no specification.

It is partly an opinion and partly fact that a €50 phone works better for audiobooks or music with a decent GUI. I use the free Musicolet. It remembers position and has adjustible speed and pitch. Plays folders or playlists.

I've tried mp3s on Kindle and Android eink, so I didn't bother wasting time on the Kobo as it requires zipped mp3s and is BT only.

I've been using BookPlayer on iOS to listen to my audiobooks. It works quite well. I can upload my audiobooks to Dropbox or OneDrive and download them through the app.

[DNSB]

Basically, there is a Linux program that plays the mp3z files.

According to one of Kobo's developers, it was intended as a quick and dirty hack when testing sound output and was never intended for public use.

As for the interactive question and eInk, you seem hung up on:
Here's a quote from Kobo's epub spec page which still applies to their eInk platform:

Kobo’s eInk and Desktop platforms have limited support for JavaScript, and do not support interactive JavaScript elements. EPUBs with JavaScript should contain fallback statements.

Read-along is implemented using SMIL which again is not supported on Kobo's eInk platforms.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Eink is best for reading actual novels. Best reason to buy one (got one originally for Gutenberg). The Sony, Kindle, Kobo etc never advertised till recently for anything other than straight novels. ...

I'm not sure about advertising, however, from 2009:

"Introducing Kindle DX--Amazon's Large Screen Addition to the Kindle Family of Wireless Reading Devices"

https://press.aboutamazon.com/2009/5...eading-devices

... Personal and professional documents look so good on the big Kindle DX display that you’ll find yourself changing ink-toner cartridges less often,” said Jeff Bezos, Amazon.com Founder and CEO. “Cookbooks, computer books, and textbooks – anything highly formatted – also shine on the Kindle DX. Carry all your documents and your whole library in one slender package. ...

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by John F

"Introducing Kindle DX--Amazon's Large Screen Addition to the Kindle Family of Wireless Reading Devices"

https://press.aboutamazon.com/2009/5...eading-devices

The DX (and later DXG) was one of Amazon's biggest failures. Aimed at Universities for PDFs. A 9.7" 150 dpi screen.

Certainly NOT interactive content. Though it like K2 & K3 had 3.5mm jack for TTS (or mp3s) from mobi. Not sure about K1. Not interactive audio.

They were sold off cheap several times.

It does mobi for novels and the DXG is simply a DX with brighter screen (Pearl vs viziplex). But heavy and the K3 was far better for novels. Later it had azw3 added. The DXG came out the same time but the HW apart from screen was really the DX, so never got azw3 upgrade.

The DX/DXG is useless for PDFs. Slug slow if image based (scans) and the Voyage, Oasis 1 and PW3 (all 300 dpi 6") are all better for PDFs

[Quoth]

I have a DXG bought for PDFs. A total failure.
Screen 824 x 1200 (Visiplex on DX, Pearl on DXG). Some claim 825 x 1200

NO non-Latin font support on DX or DXG.
128 M RAM (K3 is 256 M)
Flash: 4G internal; 3.3 G available for the user NOT MANY PDFs
Formats: Kindle (AZW= mobi with Amazon encryption), TXT, Audible (format 4, Audible Enhanced (AAX)), MP3, unprotected PDF, MOBI, PRC. ( from https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Amazon_Kindle_DX )

So no support for typical textbooks (encrypted PDF). Not sure about Audible?

DXG International version does GSM-EDGE and European 3G

The DXG is a mix of third-generation hardware and second-generation software. The CPU has the same speed as Kindle Keyboard's CPU, but the DXG has only half the system memory, 128MB. Due to these differences, the DXG runs the same firmware as Kindle 2. Therefore, DXG cannot display international fonts, like Cyrillic, Chinese, or any other non-Latin font, and PDF support and the web browser are limited to matching the Kindle 2's features.

—Wikipedia