Which one for me? math/sci grad student, tech docs + recreational reader + note takin

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by gokalp

I also have the 6" eink reader PRS 700. It is very good for casual reading, but for technical journals, the text becomes just to small to read, especially in double column papers.

Why not just use any of the free tools here to split the columns? I think all of the programs I listed earlier (PaperCrop, PDFLRF, SoPDF, etc.) can split a two-column PDF in half... as can similar programs like PDFRead and Rasterfarian.

For those journal articles that aren't multiple-columns, I find that removing the whitespace, and putting in landscape (thus spanning the page over multiple flips) is more than sufficient to make the fonts readable.

The only PDFs I've had trouble making readable on my Sony (and even then I can do it) are those that come from pre-published material, where someone is using a 8.5x11 paper with minimal margins and not dividing it into columns. E.g., a paper written in Word or something. Then, however, you can often ask for the source file.

This would never happen with published material, since professional type-setters know better than to have lines that wide, even in academic journals. They either use smaller paper, or use columns. If they use columns they can be broken up. If they use smaller paper, you may still get PDFs formatted to print on 8.5x11, but this usually only means there are massive margins that you can strip away with any number of (free) tools.

[gokalp]

Originally Posted by frabjous

Why not just use any of the free tools here to split the columns? I think all of the programs I listed earlier (PaperCrop, PDFLRF, SoPDF, etc.) can split a two-column PDF in half... as can similar programs like PDFRead and Rasterfarian.

For those journal articles that aren't multiple-columns, I find that removing the whitespace, and putting in landscape (thus spanning the page over multiple flips) is more than sufficient to make the fonts readable.

The only PDFs I've had trouble making readable on my Sony (and even then I can do it) are those that come from pre-published material, where someone is using a 8.5x11 paper with minimal margins and not dividing it into columns. E.g., a paper written in Word or something. Then, however, you can often ask for the source file.

This would never happen with published material, since professional type-setters know better than to have lines that wide, even in academic journals. They either use smaller paper, or use columns. If they use columns they can be broken up. If they use smaller paper, you may still get PDFs formatted to print on 8.5x11, but this usually only means there are massive margins that you can strip away with any number of (free) tools.

You are correct, but I feel too lazy to convert all the papers I read. Instead, using the tablet pc seems more convenient.

BTW, I am near sighted, and I can actually see small stuff really good. So I can read double column papers with tiny text in the landscape mode of PRS700

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by gokalp

You are correct, but I feel too lazy to convert all the papers I read.

Doesn't take too long once you get used to it. SoPDF for example is blazing fast, much faster than Acrobat. I made a GUI for SoPDF which makes it easier if I want non-default settings, but actually more often that that, I call it through a right-click option I defined for it with default settings in the PDF file associations in windows-- so it's just a matter of right-clicking a PDF and choosing "SoPDF-it" and 5 seconds later I have a version formatted at least decently well for my reader.

Instead, using the tablet pc seems more convenient.

Hey, more power to you! I can't afford a tablet PC, so I'm jealous!

[gokalp]

Originally Posted by frabjous

Doesn't take too long once you get used to it. SoPDF for example is blazing fast, much faster than Acrobat. I made a GUI for SoPDF which makes it easier if I want non-default settings, but actually more often that that, I call it through a right-click option I defined for it with default settings in the PDF file associations in windows-- so it's just a matter of right-clicking a PDF and choosing "SoPDF-it" and 5 seconds later I have a version formatted at least decently well for my reader.

Thanks, I'll check it out. An automated workflow is certainly a nice incentive to get started

Originally Posted by frabjous

Hey, more power to you! I can't afford a tablet PC, so I'm jealous!

Well I got a used one, so I really did not pay a lot. The TC1100 I got was around $400, which is quite affordable as a laptop or tablet pc.

[sthorpe]

Originally Posted by gokalp

Thanks, I'll check it out. An automated workflow is certainly a nice incentive to get started

Well I got a used one, so I really did not pay a lot. The TC1100 I got was around $400, which is quite affordable as a laptop or tablet pc.

Hey - I'm really intrigued by the TC1100. What are your experiences with it as a reader and for note taking? How is the battery life?

I have noticed some on ebay that are decent in price.

Thanks

[reso]

Originally Posted by frabjous

Doesn't take too long once you get used to it. SoPDF for example is blazing fast, much faster than Acrobat. I made a GUI for SoPDF which makes it easier if I want non-default settings, but actually more often that that, I call it through a right-click option I defined for it with default settings in the PDF file associations in windows-- so it's just a matter of right-clicking a PDF and choosing "SoPDF-it" and 5 seconds later I have a version formatted at least decently well for my reader.

That sounds great, where can one download this GUI?

Thanks, reso.

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by reso

That sounds great, where can one download this GUI?

Thanks, reso.

Right here:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...t=32066&page=2
(Just scroll down till you see my post about it.)

The right click thing is different, however.

[gokalp]

Originally Posted by sthorpe

Hey - I'm really intrigued by the TC1100. What are your experiences with it as a reader and for note taking? How is the battery life?

I have noticed some on ebay that are decent in price.

Thanks

For notetaking, in my experience TC1100 works beautifully with MS Onenote 2007. The stylus that comes with TC1100 is an active one, and it supports two modes - left (draw) and right click. At some point I also got a generic active stylus, which has another button on the back which acts as an eraser (like a real pencil). That is even better, and makes notetaking easier.

As a reader, I use it for reading papers and digital comics. It has a 10" screen, so in portrait mode, I can read a whole page fit into the screen, even in double column technical papers. But for others, they might want bigger fonts in that case some vertical scrolling might be necessary with landscape mode.

For comparison, standard letter size is 8.5" by 11". TC1100's screen should be 6" by 8", so in portrait mode the paper on the screen would be 70% (in length) of the printed paper (50% in area). In landscape, it is almost the same size.

Originally Posted by frabjous

Right here:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...t=32066&page=2
(Just scroll down till you see my post about it.)

The right click thing is different, however.

That is great. Thanks again!

[ddave]

Great discussion on displaying scientific/technical text! I'm also leaning towards the 700 to display technical PDF's (physics, mat.sci. etc). A few comments. I'm not sure if the 700 allows comments to be entered and transferred to the SD card (or computer), actually requested in another post as well.
Since the days of DOS and a science document editor called ChiWriter, I've been frustrated by the difficulty of entering equations. Creating an image to embed is cumbersome. Why can't we have a font of math/science symbols? Then, an equation could be entered by loading the appropriate font? An eReader or a computer could do that.

[cerement]

Originally Posted by ddave

Why can't we have a font of math/science symbols? Then, an equation could be entered by loading the appropriate font? An eReader or a computer could do that.

The designers of the various electronic readers COULD do that ... but they're too busy adding every hardware bell and whistle to the device they can find first ... I think we're going to have to wait 'til the next generation of readers before we start seeing developers hiring human interface designers and graphic designers and start looking at the actual reading experience as opposed to just adding more "ooh shiny" ...

[frabjous]

Originally Posted by ddave

Creating an image to embed is cumbersome. Why can't we have a font of math/science symbols? Then, an equation could be entered by loading the appropriate font? An eReader or a computer could do that.

I don't think the problem has to do with fonts. They could stick the fonts in no problem, sure. It's more that having the fonts would be useless unless the file format supports the kind of mark-up you need for equations. Besides PDF, most of the formats used by portable readers seem to be xml based, but they don't seem to support MathML--so working that in would be the best first step.

But it sounds like you want something more: MathML is not the kind of mark-up that you'd want to do manually as an end user, when, e.g., entering notes. So combine MathML support with something that converted, e.g., LaTeX markup to MathML for display, and boom, we'd be good to go.

Sure, this would be for a very specialized market, and there are lots of other bells and whistles that might have a larger demand, but hey, we can dare to dream...

[ddave]

I'll admit that I was thinking beyond eReaders when I mentioned a sci/math font. The word processor on my computer would also benefit. I can wait to add notes that include equations. But, I should not have to wait for a computer / reading system that can generate and display an equation.
Many years ago, in the ancient days of DOS, a scientific word processor (ChiWriter) implemented sci/math fonts. Equations flowed naturally with the text. They weren't an embedded graphic image. If a font existed, and was accepted, why couldn't that work? Yes, it would mean that in some cases the equations would be constrained, for example no excessivley large integral signs. But, I've seen it work and it frustrating that after 20+ years of computer advances, I still can't do what I was able to do back then.

(OK, sorry if I ranted, but it's been a pet peeve for a long time).

ddave

[frabjous]

There are tons of math fonts available. The "Symbol" font that ships with windows has a bunch of math symbols in it. if you need more, there are tons available online.

E.g., you can get the Mathematica fonts from here for Windows or here for Mac, for free. There are tons more available, including ComputerModern from LaTeX.

What word processor are you using? OpenOffice is free, compatible with MS Word file format, and open source, and even has its own Math equations editor.
http://www.openoffice.org/

And if that's not powerful enough for you, then just download LaTeX -- there are many free distributions, and leave non-math-friendly Word Processors behind you for good. (I have.) Here's a good place to get started:
http://www.ctan.org/what_is_tex.html

It has packages for pretty much everything, and I'm sure it can do everything ChiWriter can do... and a whole lot more! (In fact, here's A ChiWriter to TeX converter (among other things)--and if you really want to go back to using ChiWriter, it looks like you can get a tool for making it make PDFs here... though the output shown there is extremely ugly compared to the beautiful things LaTeX can do, IMHO...)

[cyanth]

Just to put in my two cents: I'm a PhD student in molecular biology, and I've had a PRS-505 for the last two years. As a matter of fact, I moved a futon on top of one recently and bought another 505 rather than upgrading to the 700. I've been quite satisfied with the 505's ability to render text of the since the firmware upgrade sometime last year improved its zoom capabilities.

I had only read reviews of the 700 to inform my decision since I couldn't get my hands on one to handle myself. How's the 700 serving you to read science journal articles?

[ddave]

Cyanth,
So far my limited experience viewing science journal articles on the 700 has been limited to copying PDF files onto an SD card and dropping it into a 700 at a local Borders retail store. The fact that I was able to just drop in an SD card and view the file was encouraging.

Comparing PDF viewing on the 505 vs. th 700: the first thing I noticed is that the 505 took longer to open a PDF, and longer to turn a page. I found myself waiting each time. The 700 still takes some time to process, I felt it was much quicker. Therefore, when I went in to try different PDF files, I quickly limited my trials to the 700.

Some PDF's can be viewed quite nicely by selecting a larger font size and the 700 will 'reflow' and generate a decent screen. However, if the PDF's were generated by scanning a full page, the the results are more unpredictable. In that case, I would view the file both by changing the font size and by zooming in from the full page display. In the latter case, everything is in place and you can zoom or pan around on the page. Unfortunately, when you go to the next page you have to re-zoom.

I have not experimented yet with programs that generate new PDF files from files that don't display well. For example, some programs will take a 2-column article (common in scientific publications) and separate the columns. Haven't tried yet.
Many have said that it is also better to view full-page PDF (that don't reflow well) in landscape mode.

Consequently, I've decided on the 700. I just haven't had time to buy one yet. Hopefully in the next week or so.

Good luck, ddave