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Old 09-19-2018, 07:50 AM   #31
pwalker8
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Money has nothing to do with it. Everyone has their price, even rich people are susceptible to bribes. Its more how you are raised.
Different cultures have different morals. In many, if not most cultures, bribery is expected. When my sister adopted her kids, she was given a list of what to give each official in the chain. If I recall correctly, the judge in the case was given a silver tea set. This was in one of the former Soviet states. I can point to similar situations in Latin America, Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Europe told to me by people who do business there.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:41 PM   #32
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In many, if not most cultures, bribery is expected.
People in other cultures tend to know more about that of the United States than vice-versa. So if an Amazon worker, in a high-corruption country, is caught in quid pro quo bribe-taking, I'm sure they won't expect the company to be OK with it.

China is undergoing a big public anti-corruption campaign with draconian punishments given government officials when the alleged total bribe-taking amount is extremely large. No one is going to executed for business-to-business corruption like the topic of this thread, but perpetrators surely know it is against both national and international rules.

It might even be that in China the merchandisers are more likely to complain about a bribe solicitation than in some other Amazon markets, due to the national anti-corruption campaign. I wouldn't conclude, from the OP article, that amazon.cn reviews are worse than amazon.com.

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Old 09-19-2018, 07:54 PM   #33
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As a point of clarification (slightly 2nd hand since it is from a quote of the WSJ in another article -- WSJ original article behind a pay wall): the article explicitly said that some of these employees were U.S. employees. So it's not all employees from China or other less developed countries.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:09 PM   #34
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I think what they're doing is more important than why they are doing it. It reinforces my decision to avoid buying Chinese items on Amazon's Marketplace.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:10 PM   #35
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From one book I once read on the advertising industry, it was unbelievable the number of dentists they interviewed to find 8 that would recommend the product being advertised. Once you have them, keep those 8 names on file along with 2 of the others and you are able to face the truth in advertising police with no qualms.
It's like survey results. They will come to a conclusion like, "80% of Americans think this." What they really mean is, "80% of the people dumb enough to take our survey think this."

There's a big difference in those two conclusions above. The researchers don't mention that 99.99% of the people who heard them say, "Would you like to participate..." immediately hung up on them because they had the intelligence to not waste their time on a ridiculous survey with leading questions and a predetermined result.

Surveys always reflect the thinking of the dumbest of the dumb. Not a result I'd want to base anything important on.
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:22 AM   #36
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Sorry. We're clearly not going to see eye to eye on this. None of what you've quoted (nor any of the other tales I've heard about Amazon's corporate practices, or the conditions in their various US warehouses) comes even close to what I would consider "nightmarish." Even if they're 100% accurate. They just sound like every place I've ever worked (blue and white collar) all of my life.
Then it's only fair to ask do you work a minimum-wage, zero-hour contract job with no vacation, sick pay or pension rights?
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:10 AM   #37
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Then it's only fair to ask do you work a minimum-wage, zero-hour contract job with no vacation, sick pay or pension rights?
No (except for the minimum wage, no sick pay, or pension rights parts). And neither do any Amazon employees working in the U.S. Any Amazon employee working in a Fulfillment Center makes more than I do.

I think it's also only fair to ask: were Amazon employees led to believe the job would pay more, have more benefits, and have more security before they accepted the position? Or did they have all the info and accept anyway?

Last edited by DiapDealer; 09-20-2018 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:55 AM   #38
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No (except for the minimum wage, no sick pay, or pension rights parts). And neither do any Amazon employees working in the U.S. Any Amazon employee working in a Fulfillment Center makes more than I do.

I think it's also only fair to ask: were Amazon employees led to believe the job would pay more, have more benefits, and have more security before they accepted the position? Or did they have all the info and accept anyway?
So you work a minimum wage job without sick pay or pension? I'm surprised. I would expect you to me more sensitized to these sort of employment practices, and so be more opposed to them. Are you are retired and only work part-time?
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:17 AM   #39
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I'm surprised. I would expect you to me more sensitized to these sort of employment practices, and so be more opposed to them.
Why? I see nothing abnormal, abusive, or "wrong" about any of the employment practices of Amazon that have been mentioned in various articles. There's nothing for me to be sensitized, or opposed, to. Work is work. Some you like, some you hate. Whoop dee do. There is no entitlement to work without sweat or the occasional hardship. It's work, not summer camp.

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Are you are retired and only work part-time?
Nope and nope.

Now it's time for you to answer my question about whether or not potential employees know the score before accepting a position with Amazon.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:13 PM   #40
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I learned my work ethics from my father. Your job is what ever your boss tells you to do, even if it isn't in your job description. If you disagree or don't like it you can always quit and get another job.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:36 AM   #41
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I think it's also only fair to ask: were Amazon employees led to believe the job would pay more, have more benefits, and have more security before they accepted the position? Or did they have all the info and accept anyway?
I think the real question is do employees who accept Amazon's employment terms have an option, other than starving and homelessness? If that is the only employment available, then it is not a choice. Perhaps some people prefer to work minimum-wage, no benefit, zero-hour contract jobs (that last one doesn't apply to you). There are also people who enjoy pain. They are called masochists.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:18 PM   #42
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I think the real question is do employees who accept Amazon's employment terms have an option, other than starving and homelessness?
I don't believe that to be the "real" question at all. I believe you're being presumptuous about a) the conditions being worked under at amazon facilities, and b) the notion that all people working at Amazon facilities are miserable and one step away from poverty and homelessness.

It is my contention that while people who feel the way you do may actually tend to do so out of what they believe to be concern their "fellow man;" they're typically people who've been payed far too much, for far too long (for doing far too little) to be able to relate to sweat-of-their-brow-and-proud-of-it type folk. They're a bit out of touch with what "working for a living" actually means to many.

Part of the disconnect is that we're not likely to hear from the people who are perfectly content with their Amazon jobs (of which I'm sure there are many--white- and blue-collar). Because that's not newsworthy at all.

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If that is the only employment available, then it is not a choice.
Why on earth would you believe it's the only employment available? There's nothing to suggest that Amazon only builds warehouses and creates jobs in economically-depressed areas. Quite the opposite, in fact.

But we've derailed this thread enough with our differences of opinion. I propose we stop. But you're welcome to continue this conversation with yourself if you like.

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Old 09-24-2018, 01:13 PM   #43
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I think the real question is do employees who accept Amazon's employment terms have an option, other than starving and homelessness? If that is the only employment available, then it is not a choice.
Either you choose to work for Amazon or you don't. There is a choice. Getting dramatic over it because in a specific case there are few options to choose from does not mean that there is not a choice. And once you begin working for Amazon, which some are bizarrely portraying as yanking you out of your nest and forcing you to work for them, you can't really get by with "But I didn't have a choice, I had to behave unethically and accept bribes." That is surely a load of crap.

Certainly, educated and skilled workers will have more choices in employment available the them than unskilled/uneducated workers. And workers that have amassed savings will have an easier time getting through a period of unemployment than will a poor worker with no savings. These things are obvious, and 100% expected to occur.
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:06 PM   #44
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Part of the disconnect is that we're not likely to hear from the people who are perfectly content with their Amazon jobs (of which I'm sure there are many--white- and blue-collar). Because that's not newsworthy at all.
Of course it's not newsworthy. Why report about happy workers? That doesn't sell newspapers or works as click bait.

I'm not too worried about what Amazon pays. There are hard jobs, and really hard jobs, and you have to know going in that you've agreed to work the hour for the wage. A lot of my extended family has worked production lines on and off, and none are a picnic.

So far, the worst I've heard is meat packing. That will mess you up pretty bad, arms and joints and the workers come and go constantly because of wear and tear of throwing huge chunks of meat around to get cut down and wrapped. I hear the chicken line at Perdue is hell on earth.

But I rarely hear anyone campaign against buying meat anywhere because those workers aren't getting high wages.

For Amazon, I've only heard good things. A distantly related couple I knew lived the RV life, and would work at Amazon from October to December when they got busy. They then could take that money and head south in January and it supplemented their savings until the next October. Last I heard, they went back every year for quite a few years. I think they may have retired from it now. There were always people on the list to work that season.

https://roadslesstraveled.us/rv-work...n-camperforce/

So, I take the Amazon horror stories with a grain of salt. If they were bad enough, no one would work there. But they do. They're rarely the only jobs in town.
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:31 PM   #45
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I don't believe that to be the "real" question at all. I believe you're being presumptuous about a) the conditions being worked under at amazon facilities, and b) the notion that all people working at Amazon facilities are miserable and one step away from poverty and homelessness.
Amazon is raising its minimum wage to $15 an hour for all US employees

I think that settles it.
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