eBook prices?

[dublincheri]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I buy mostly "backlist" ebooks from Amazon UK, and on average pay between half and two thirds the price of the equivalent paperback, which seems reasonable enough to me. Eg nearly all of Dick Francis' ebooks are £3.99, compared to £7.99 for the paperback, so the ebook is half the price of the paperback.

If you wait a year or two after the initial release of a book (and goodness knows my "TBR" list is long enough to make that no hardship), the ebook price generally falls significantly.

I’m still trying to complete my Dick Francis collection, I paid around $4.99 for most (other than the ones purchased when first released). Unfortunately many of them still aren’t available in the US store. To finish the collection I would be happy to pay at least the full print book price. The paper versions are showing extreme signs of wear and some are even falling apart!

I have alerts for favourite authors and will buy when their books are reduced to a price I am willing to pay. Other times I will buy something I really want to read despite the price. I recently purchased a series I wanted to read again in print and have hated the size and weight (1000+ pages each). So although the production costs are not there I find the ebooks to be worth more to me in some cases.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by rcentros

The Agency Price scheme determines what Amazon HAS to sell these publisher's eBooks for. They can no longer discount them on their own. Amazon already had the lion's share of eBook sales and were STILL selling eBooks for $10 UNTIL Apple and the Big Five, while colluding, talked about how they "abhorred" the Amazon $10 eBook price and how they were going to raise it to $12.99 or $14.99. Jobs announced that he would raise prices eBooks right from the beginning. So, quite bluntly, this is not an "excuse" it's just the facts. You're the one who appears to be engaging in historical "revisionism."

Can't get much clearer than this (from Cote's decision) quoting what Jobs said when introducing the iPad...



The end of $10 eBooks, engineered by Apple – not Amazon's decision.



And that was my point. I was "willing to pay" the $10 (or less, on sale) for eBooks from Amazon (never borrowed eBooks at that point) but not now with the Apple/Big Six Agency collusion pricing scheme. I still contend that the publishers would probably make more money selling eBooks for $10 because many more would buy them instead of borrowing them from the library. They've figured this out in the movie and music industry.

Simply repeating the talking point and calling a price point a collusion price doesn't change the facts. It's been over 8 years now since the alleged collusion occurred.

Most of the publishers including the non big 5 publishers use the same pricing strategy, i.e. ebooks slightly under the normal discounted price of the current paper price (either hardback or paper depending on if the book has been released in paper). It's been that way for a number of years now. 8 years is plenty of time for the market to agree on a price point. That's what has happened with ebooks. If ebooks were too expensive for most consumers then the price point would have dropped by now.

Yea, movies sure have figured it out. The initial digital prices points for most major movies is between $15 - $20. After a time, most drop to around $10. Eventually, it falls into the under $10 range. Of course, not all. For example, Iron Man which came out in 2008, is still $20. I guess it's still popular enough to command that price point.

Funny, that's kind of what is happening with ebooks. Books that continue to sell, continue to command a premium price point (The Lord of the Ring books and Wheel of Time books are still at $10 per book), other books drop in price over time. One can buy Lord Foul's Bane for $3 in the kindle store. It has nothing to do with collusion and everything to do with what prices the market will pay.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Simply repeating the talking point and calling a price point a collusion price doesn't change the facts. It's been over 8 years now since the alleged collusion occurred.

I don't care why or how it occurred. that's water under the bridge. I just care that the result is that many/most eBooks cost more than I'm willing to pay. Just like a Lamborghini costs more than I'm willing to pay. Could I buy one? Yes, but it would be a boneheaded financial move on my part.

My response to most eBooks costing more than I'm will to pay? I borrow them from the library instead. Or I buy other eBooks that are cheaper (old releases, unestablished new authors, etc.)

My response to the Lamborghini cost? I bought a Ford truck instead. Mostly because the Lamborghini didn't have the towing capacity I needed for the horse trailer.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by haertig

I don't care why or how it occurred. that's water under the bridge. I just care that the result is that many/most eBooks cost more than I'm willing to pay. Just like a Lamborghini costs more than I'm willing to pay. Could I buy one? Yes, but it would be a boneheaded financial move on my part.

My response to most eBooks costing more than I'm will to pay? I borrow them from the library instead. Or I buy other eBooks that are cheaper (old releases, unestablished new authors, etc.)

My response to the Lamborghini cost? I bought a Ford truck instead. Mostly because the Lamborghini didn't have the towing capacity I needed for the horse trailer.

That's pretty much what market means. If you don't like the price, you don't pay. If enough people don't like the price, then the business fails. Right now, it appears that enough people are willing to pay the current price point.

I have no issue with someone saying something is more than they are willing to pay. My point is that expecting all cars to be priced at the same price as a Yugo is folly. Books aren't commodities any more than cars are. Some books are free, some priced at a dollar or so, others at $10, others at $20. It just depends if they have enough people willing to pay that price point for specific books and authors to make money.

[SleepyBob]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

This is a really tired old subject that's been discussed to death, so I'm not sure how much response you'll get to your thread.

LOL
...

[haertig]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

My point is that expecting all cars to be priced at the same price as a Yugo is folly.

True. Especially true, since Yugo is out of business! Don't know if that is because they were sold for so little that profits couldn't be maintained, or because they were of such low quality that nobody wanted to buy them no matter how cheap they were. My hunch is it was the latter. Had they raised the price of the Yugo to seek a higher profit margin I think they would have sold even fewer than the two that they did sell.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

This is a really tired old subject that's been discussed to death, so I'm not sure how much response you'll get to your thread. I'll add a few things...

Although I have seen plenty of threads that were started on other topics devolve into a discussion of ebook prices, I don't recall seeing a thread actually started specifically on this topic (maybe I missed it).

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

That's pretty much what market means. If you don't like the price, you don't pay. If enough people don't like the price, then the business fails. Right now, it appears that enough people are willing to pay the current price point.

Agreed. Apparently there are enough people out there willing to pay $15.99 (or whatever) for the latest book by a bestselling author for the publishers and stores to maintain this business model.

Personally, I usually wait until the book has been out a while and dropped in price (or until I can get it at the library) but if the people paying $15.99 are helping keep the author in business then that's OK with me.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Agreed. Apparently there are enough people out there willing to pay $15.99 (or whatever) for the latest book by a bestselling author for the publishers and stores to maintain this business model.

Personally, I usually wait until the book has been out a while and dropped in price (or until I can get it at the library) but if the people paying $15.99 are helping keep the author in business then that's OK with me.

Pre ebooks, we saw the same dynamic with Hardback, trade and paperback. Add in used books and there were price points for everyone.

IMPO, the two big issues that ebooks have is that many people have trouble wrapping their head around the idea that something that doesn't physically exist except as a computer file has value and there really isn't a one to one match as far as price points go. While people might acknowledge the idea that with a hardback verses paperback you are mostly paying to get the book a year earlier, I think that the physical differences between the Hardback and paperback is what sticks in people's minds.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Agreed. Apparently there are enough people out there willing to pay $15.99 (or whatever) for the latest book by a bestselling author for the publishers and stores to maintain this business model.

Best selling authors, sure.
Others?

Well, their own financials show declining ebook sales and the drop has reached the point they are "experimenting" with delaying releases to libraries. An "experiment" likely to drag on once they see even minor boosts in sales, allowing them to drop library ebook releases or raise library costs yet again.

The big name authors will always get paid.
But those aren't the authors complaining of declining incomes (in the US, UK, & Canada) and asking government to force publishers to raise royalties. (UK)

So the business model charges more to readers and pays less to authors.
Yes, the publishers will want it to go on indefinitely.
Others?

We'll see...

[crich70]

Originally Posted by haertig

You are under the false assumption that things are priced based on what they cost to produce. That is incorrect. They are priced based on how much the seller can get a buyer to pay, regardless of what it cost to produce the product.

How else could a restaurant charge $3 for a glass of iced tea? Or $6.75 for a slice of pie for dessert? These restaurant prices make about as much sense as eBook prices. Yet, there you have them.

Ah but you aren't just paying for the iced tea or pie, but the use of the space, the service of the waitress, etc. as well. Remember the wait staff doesn't work for free, they have bills to pay as well. And if you are occupying space in a restaurant then that's a seat that other patrons can't use while you are there. Plus there is the expense of buying the food and having it transported to the restaurant as well. Not to mention even restaurants have gas, water and electric bills to pay as well as taxes. There are a lot of costs that the customer doesn't think about that have to be accounted for when a restaurant sets their prices. Even competition plays its part. If I go to McDonalds for example then I'm not going to KFC or Wendy's etc. so that I'm putting $ in the pocket of the owner of the McDonalds franchise holder but not in that of their competition. And in the case of the fast food restaurants there is also the cost of advertising and paying for coupons to be printed which they hope will bring in business.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by haertig

True. Especially true, since Yugo is out of business! Don't know if that is because they were sold for so little that profits couldn't be maintained, or because they were of such low quality that nobody wanted to buy them no matter how cheap they were. My hunch is it was the latter. Had they raised the price of the Yugo to seek a higher profit margin I think they would have sold even fewer than the two that they did sell.

It may even be a psychological point in a way. i.e. "If company x is charging so little for their product then they must not think it's worth very much" and so the customer goes somewhere else for that type of product.

[rem736]

i agree that the price of a book (e-book or paper) may not necessarily be determined by costs alone. however, if the actual costs associated with e-books are lower than the paper version (which is generally the case), then e-book version should never be priced higher than the paper version. it should be priced the same or lower (even a penny lower) than the paper version. pricing the e-book version higher when it costs less simply tells the customer that whoever is selling is trying to take advantage of the consumer for format preference. pricing it the same or lower, and you'll get less confusion and less complaints. and i am emphasizing that you don't have to price it lower. just make both formats the same price. even better yet, sell both versions to the same customer at the price of one version + $1 (or something much lower than the price of one alone). this will make the combo a bargain for the consumer at very minimal additional cost to the seller.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Simply repeating the talking point and calling a price point a collusion price doesn't change the facts. It's been over 8 years now since the alleged collusion occurred.

And the Agency pricing scheme, that was put into effect at the time of the Apple/Big Six collusion, is now the industry standard.

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Most of the publishers including the non big 5 publishers use the same pricing strategy, i.e. ebooks slightly under the normal discounted price of the current paper price (either hardback or paper depending on if the book has been released in paper). It's been that way for a number of years now. 8 years is plenty of time for the market to agree on a price point. That's what has happened with ebooks. If ebooks were too expensive for most consumers then the price point would have dropped by now.

The Big Five publishers are not basing their prices on the "market" – they're basing them on what they want to charge. In their minds, keeping the prices up for eBooks helps the sales of paper books. So it's still collusion. It's pretty obvious when Amazon sells independent books for much, much cheaper than those that are priced by the Big Five.

Example ... I've just finished reading The Silmarillion (after years of not reading it while being a big fan of Tolkien's books). I thought I might want to add it to my book collection (the copy I read was borrowed from the library via Overdrive). Here are the prices in the "competitive" eBook market.

Amazon – $9.99
Barnes & Noble – $9.99
Google Play Store – $9.99
Kobo – $9.99
Apple iTunes – $9.99

Not that I think this is an unreasonable price, but it would be nice to see SOME separation (if only by 50¢).

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Yea, movies sure have figured it out. The initial digital prices points for most major movies is between $15 - $20. After a time, most drop to around $10. Eventually, it falls into the under $10 range. Of course, not all. For example, Iron Man which came out in 2008, is still $20. I guess it's still popular enough to command that price point.

Nope. Prices for Iron Man DVDs ...

Amazon – $7.99
Best Buy – $9.99
Target – $7.99
Barnes & Noble – $15.14
Walmart – $9.83

This is what COMPETITION looks like.

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Funny, that's kind of what is happening with ebooks. Books that continue to sell, continue to command a premium price point (The Lord of the Ring books and Wheel of Time books are still at $10 per book), other books drop in price over time. One can buy Lord Foul's Bane for $3 in the kindle store. It has nothing to do with collusion and everything to do with what prices the market will pay.

"Funny" when these books are sold by the Colluding Five. When they're sold by Amazon or an independent, not so much.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by rcentros

And the Agency pricing scheme, that was put into effect at the time of the Apple/Big Six collusion, is now the industry standard.



The Big Five publishers are not basing their prices on the "market" – they're basing them on what they want to charge. In their minds, keeping the prices up for eBooks helps the sales of paper books. So it's still collusion. It's pretty obvious when Amazon sells independent books for much, much cheaper than those that are priced by the Big Five.

Example ... I've just finished reading The Silmarillion (after years of not reading it while being a big fan of Tolkien's books). I thought I might want to add it to my book collection (the copy I read was borrowed from the library via Overdrive). Here are the prices in the "competitive" eBook market.

Amazon – $9.99
Barnes & Noble – $9.99
Google Play Store – $9.99
Kobo – $9.99
Apple iTunes – $9.99

Not that I think this is an unreasonable price, but it would be nice to see SOME separation (if only by 50¢).



Nope. Prices for Iron Man DVDs ...

Amazon – $7.99
Best Buy – $9.99
Target – $7.99
Barnes & Noble – $15.14
Walmart – $9.83

This is what COMPETITION looks like.



"Funny" when these books are sold by the Colluding Five. When they're sold by Amazon or an independent, not so much.

Amazon tells me that both the Prime Video and Blu-Ray versions of Iron Man are $19.99 as I said.

https://www.amazon.com/Iron-Man-Blu-...n%3A2650305011

Publishers compete with each other. Different books are priced at different price points. That's competition. If you don't like the price point of the Silmarillion (the first hard back I ever bought and the first book I ever pre-ordered. I still have my first edition copy), then buy a different book at a lower price point.

I get that you consider agency to be some great evil, but consider that Amazon was already raising their prices quite a bit before agreeing to agency. Once they had their market share, they had no reason to keep prices down.