Renaming files

[HarryT]

"Panning" the image is a pretty unpleasant way to read PDFs. That's exactly what the original CyBook does, and one soon grows tired of it. It's not a way you'd want to read an whole journal or book, believe me!

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But the "fault" (if that's the right word) lies with the PDF format, not with the Reader. The Reader will display PDFs, but it can't "magically" make an A4/Letter page be easily viewable on a 6" screen.

What is pdf file? It is a file meant to be read? If you cannot read it, only open, what is a point of opening it in the first place? Sony reader doesn't support it.

So, the sony's statement was false. It is the only issue I have had with the reader. It was unfair behaviour towards me as a customer (if you can do something say it so, but if you cannot then just say: I cannot, or say nothing at all. No need to lie or be ashamed that you cannot do it. Anyone who needs it for PDF only would become frustrated and hate sony after that, while being honest wins more faithful customers........that's probably the reason why I am not a businessman, but a mere IT technician.).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

What is pdf file? It is a file meant to be read? If you cannot read it, only open, what is a point of opening it in the first place? Sony reader doesn't support it.

So, the sony's statement was false.

Not at all

If you create PDF files the correct page size for the Sony, the results are excellent. Look at Hadrien's "Feedbooks" site for an example.

There is a perfectly good PDF viewer in the Reader; it's not Sony's fault if you choose to try and read a file that's been formatted for the wrong page size!

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Not at all

If you create PDF files the correct page size for the Sony, the results are excellent. Look at Hadrien's "Feedbooks" site for an example.

There is a perfectly good PDF viewer in the Reader; it's not Sony's fault if you choose to try and read a file that's been formatted for the wrong page size!

But they have never mentioned that you will have to create the files by yourself?
If any gadget in todays world claims that it can support PDFs, it means it supports pdf files the way they are. It is a very misleading statement: I support PDF, without saying that actually you will have to customise every single pdf file you have at the moment.

If I buy a DVD player that claims it supports XVID, then my expectations are that when I insert a CD with xvid.avi file on it, it will be played. I would be very angry if I learned after buying the player that I have to convert a world wide acceptable xvid.avi file into mp2 or mp4. That's is what you have to do with pdf files on sony reader, you have to convert world wide accepted file format them into a proprietary sony pdf version.

Today, I understand that it is impossible technically, but it doesn't make it a true statement on sony's behalf that it can support it without any further warnings.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

But they have never mentioned that you will have to create the files by yourself?
If any gadget in todays world claims that it can support PDFs, it means it supports pdf files the way they are. It is a very misleading statement: I support PDF, without saying that actually you will have to customise every single pdf file you have at the moment.

I think you're being a bit unreasonable. It is NOT Sony's fault that PDF files have a fixed page size, and that there's no sensible way to read a document formated for an A4 page on a screen that's half the size! That is a limitation of the PDF file format itself, not of the Reader.

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is NOT Sony's fault that PDF files have a fixed page size, and that there's no sensible way to read a document formated for an A4 page on a screen that's half the size! That is a limitation of the PDF file format itself, not of the Reader.

I agree. It is not their fault. It is impossible to do with the reader. So why do they mislead customers by saying that the reader does support the format without any notes about a complete reconstruction of any given pdf file of today?

When you buy a TV you are not supposed to know anything about wavelength, electronics etc. You are language teacher, not IT geek. You read specs (to find out whether it supports SD or HD or both and whether you need to buy an additional digi box): and you find out that you can watch standart definition TV if you connect antenna to it and you can watch digi TV because they have put a digi box for you inside. you buy it.

The same goes for the reader and pdf. You are NOT supposed to understand or even think about how a certain format will behave on every single piece of equipment you use, such as PC, laptop, PDA or ebook reader (whether it is A4 or A6, you don't understand about it, all you know is that you have collected some 50 PDFs that were a part of paper books you bought for yourself for the past 5 years and you had never ever experienced any problem with reading them if OS says: it supports it. You are not supposed to know any details such reflowable formats, it is not a common knowledge for an average customer). You read specs for a given gadget (sony reader) and check out whether it supports a given format. If it supports the format, you buy it....and end up with completely unreadable library of pdfs you have on your HDs? Misleading customers, it is their fault.

IMHO

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

What is pdf file? It is a file meant to be read?

Nope. Actually it's not.

But that little mis perception is the root of a lot of dissatisfaction surrounding PDF handling (not just on the Reader). And, incidentally, why we point the issue out as often as it comes up around here -- we want people to realize the ramifications of it before they buy.

What a PDF file is, is a file format expressly and specifically designed to preserve the arrangement of content on a page. Yes, it's supposed to keep that content readable, but that is simply not its primary purpose.

The problem which it was conceived to solve is that when person A sends a file from his word processor to person B, who then prints from her word processor, the two print outs can, and often do, look very different. PDF is designed to address that, so that any number of people can print a given electronic document in any number of places and get the same results. It is, at its heart, a layout preserving format, even its name very name "Portable Document Format" reflects this. This point is also blatantly obvious every time that an A4 PDF is opened on a 6" screen (using, by the way, software provided by Adobe)-- the layout is about the only thing that you can still make out, which is the actual issue at hand.

You're correct that it's not really anyone's fault that it does what it does and not something else entirely. Adobe is, in effect, admitting that this is the case by bringing out a second format (Digital Editions) that is aimed at reading, rather than layout preservation.

People only started using PDF for making books because it was handy -- Adobe has done an excellent job of penetrating the market with their product. However, if they had named their free, display-only software "Adobe Viewer" instead of making the unfortunate choice of "Adobe Reader" we'd be a lot less likely to be having this conversation.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

I agree. It is not their fault. It is impossible to do with the reader. So why do they mislead customers by saying that the reader does support the format without any notes about a complete reconstruction of any given pdf file of today?

I will agree that it would be better if there were to be a warning that A4/Letter PDFs won't display well on the Reader .

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

So why do they mislead customers by saying that the reader does support the format without any notes about a complete reconstruction of any given pdf file of today?

It does support it. It faithfully displays the document, preserving its layout precisely, just as PDF is designed to do.

And it's not "any given pdf file of today" -- the ones with a 6" diagonal page display perfectly well, as already discussed.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Panning" the image is a pretty unpleasant way to read PDFs. That's exactly what the original CyBook does, and one soon grows tired of it. It's not a way you'd want to read an whole journal or book, believe me!

But at least you could see it. As opposed to the [b]being too small to see[/i] we get now.

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I will agree that it would be better if there were to be a warning that A4/Letter PDFs won't display well on the Reader .

Finally there is a small agreement

[John Wheater]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That's an easy answer. Allow the size button to zoom in on the PDF and the number buttons to scroll. 1 for up, 2 for down, 3 for left, and 4 for right. Then even though the PDF is now larger then the screen, at least we can scroll around to be able to read it.

Yes, thanks, JS Wolf, quite right. Not exactly ... what sort of science?:-)

[John Wheater]

Originally Posted by NatCh

It does support it. It faithfully displays the document, preserving its layout precisely, just as PDF is designed to do.

And it's not "any given pdf file of today" -- the ones with a 6" diagonal page display perfectly well, as already discussed.

NatCh, all you say about pdf is absolutely true. The issue really is why Sony chose to support this 'faithful reproducer' format knowing that what people need is a way of reading documents on a 6" screen that they normally see on a bigger screen. wwwinwwg!

The elephant in the room here (apart from the fact that we're in 'Renaming Files!:-)) is the lack of HTML support. Here is a format designed for viewing, with sophisticated rendering software freely available. I think it must be a marketing decision, Sony still hoping to make a 'dripping roast' by forcing people to buy eBooks, rather than read the marvellous free HTMLs from Gutenberg. It may be they'll take one more step back from their first, very cagy, step into the ePaper field (what was that crazy device called now?:-)), and support HTML.

Somebody will, sometime; the iRex iLiad already supports HTML, but it has battery-life problems & is v. dear. You can save an HTML document as RTF, but the result is often not impressive.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by John Wheater

NatCh, all you say about pdf is absolutely true. The issue really is why Sony chose to support this 'faithful reproducer' format knowing that what people need is a way of reading documents on a 6" screen that they normally see on a bigger screen. wwwinwwg!

Because, for the ten thousandth time, PDF documents correctly sized for the Reader display perfectly well, and have some benefits over document types which "flow" - eg they can support proper hypenation.

There really is just NO WAY to successfully view an A4 document on a 90x120mm screen. This is indeed NOT "rocket science" .

The elephant in the room here (apart from the fact that we're in 'Renaming Files!:-)) is the lack of HTML support. Here is a format designed for viewing, with sophisticated rendering software freely available. I think it must be a marketing decision, Sony still hoping to make a 'dripping roast' by forcing people to buy eBooks, rather than read the marvellous free HTMLs from Gutenberg. It may be they'll take one more step back from their first, very cagy, step into the ePaper field (what was that crazy device called now?:-)), and support HTML.

It would be nice if the Reader supported HTML, I agree, but there are free tools such as "html2lrf" which will trivially convert HTML into the Reader's native LRF file format.

[NatCh]

And it does open Gutenberg's RTF files just fine.