Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-2020, 05:20 PM   #16
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,124
Karma: 39633900
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
From Amazon:

Quote:
Kindle owners with Amazon Prime memberships can choose from thousands of books to read for free once a month from the Kindle Owners' Lending Library (KOLL)...
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2020, 05:48 PM   #17
tomsem
Wizard
tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,472
Karma: 10900001
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Device: iPhone XS, Kindle Paperwhite, iPad mini
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBookGuy View Post
It is a Prime benefit in the sense that the books are only available to Prime members! It is not as you imply available to all Kindle or Fire owners without Prime memberships.

I was under the impression that KLL authors received some sort of modest compensation?
No, that is wrong: KOLL pre-dates Prime and has been available to non-Prime users with Amazon devices. This is what is going away.

I do not actually know what is available in KOLL vs Prime Reading and Kindle Unlimited, and have no way to check as I’m both a Prime and KU subscriber. It is at least as much as Prime Reading and might even be anything in KU (and probably payout to content owners is the same). But the latter two are not restricted to Amazon devices and are ‘unlimited’ up to the borrowing limit (1 in the case of Prime Reading and 10 in the case of KU) instead of one per month.

FWIW there were in fact a couple of titles in KOLL that were never available in Prime Reading or Kindle Unlimited, though this is a moot point now.
tomsem is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-11-2020, 06:38 PM   #18
DrNefario
Wizard
DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DrNefario's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,997
Karma: 9157318
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Device: Kindle, Kobo Touch, Nook SimpleTouch
KOLL was never available without Prime here in the UK.

It did seem that Prime Reading was meant to replace it, and they've obviously been trying to hide it for ages, but I'd now need KU to get what I was getting from KOLL. That means Prime is pretty much just a video streaming service to me, now.
DrNefario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2020, 06:44 PM   #19
mitford13
Guru
mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mitford13 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 659
Karma: 6449368
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arlington, VA
Device: iPad Air2, Fire HD10, Paperwhite, Kobo App
KOLL is/was only for Prime members and authors do get compensated.

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201392160
mitford13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2020, 07:46 PM   #20
rcentros
eReader Wrangler
rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rcentros ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rcentros's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,525
Karma: 35579330
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boise, ID
Device: PocketBook HD3
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNefario View Post
KOLL was never available without Prime here in the UK.

It did seem that Prime Reading was meant to replace it, and they've obviously been trying to hide it for ages, but I'd now need KU to get what I was getting from KOLL. That means Prime is pretty much just a video streaming service to me, now.
I guess I was wrong on this. Prime was introduced in 2005. The Kindle Lending Library was introduced in 2011 and it looks like it always was part of the Prime package. I guess we must have had Prime when this program first came out and, since I didn't buy my first Kindle until after 2011, the Kindle Lending Library was always there.

Here's a link to a news release in November, 2011 (basically an Amazon press release).

https://mashable.com/2011/11/03/amazonlending-library/
rcentros is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-11-2020, 08:54 PM   #21
SeaBookGuy
Can one read too much?
SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SeaBookGuy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
SeaBookGuy's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,962
Karma: 2487799
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle, USA
Device: Kindle PW 3, Sony 350 and 650
Some months I have scrambled specifically to find a KOLL title to use the benefit; some have been either "meh" or DNF, so it will likely be a loss of a few bucks a year for a series or two that interest me, not nearly enough to pay for KU instead.
SeaBookGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 01:53 AM   #22
haertig
Guru
haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 991
Karma: 15300106
Join Date: Sep 2017
Device: PW3, Fire HD8 Gen7, Moto G7, Sansa Clip v2, Ruizu X26
I have used KOLL on a few rare occasions. You can't search for KOLL books, at least I couldn't find a way to. However, you CAN search for KU books and every KU book I searched out was available on KOLL (that doesn't mean all KU books are on KOLL, just the ones I searched for!)

KOLL is like "KU Lite". You can check out one book at a time with KOLL, and only one book per month. But in my experience, the KOLL selection was the same as the KU selection.

One poster above said that KOLL was only available for Kindles and not for Fire tablets running the Kindle app. That is incorrect. The few KOLL books I checked out were always checked out from my Fire tablet and read on my Fire tablet. As a matter of fact, I never figured out a way to check out a KOLL book except by using my Fire tablet to check it out. I'm sure there must be a way, but I didn't see it. Also, when you have a KU subscription, you cannot check out a KOLL book. KOLL becomes available again after your KU subscription ends.

But now KOLL is going away, so none of the above matters.
haertig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 09:42 AM   #23
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,823
Karma: 22166592
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitford13 View Post
KOLL is/was only for Prime members and authors do get compensated.

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201392160
Not properly. Nor is this clearly explained when you publish on KDP.
Quote:
Every time a unique customer reads pages in your book for the first time, you will be eligible for royalties.
Also that relies on direct connection of the Kindle to Amazon, at least by WiFi, and invasive tracking compared to other paper or ebook libraries.

Amazon has no right to make these rules, it's an abuse of their market power.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 09:48 AM   #24
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,680
Karma: 19600000
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Note 4, Kobo One
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Not properly.
That is your opinion, not fact.

Quote:
Also that relies on direct connection of the Kindle to Amazon, at least by WiFi, and invasive tracking compared to other paper or ebook libraries.
As does the equivalent program from Kobo.

Last edited by murraypaul; 12-15-2020 at 09:51 AM.
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 12:46 PM   #25
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,618
Karma: 54270429
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Forma, Clara HD, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Pro, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Also that relies on direct connection of the Kindle to Amazon, at least by WiFi, and invasive tracking compared to other paper or ebook libraries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
That is your opinion, not fact.

As does the equivalent program from Kobo.
Perhaps Quoth can think of a way to have the number of pages read in a borrowed book tracked without having some form of tracking in place. I accept that Kindle Unlimited or KoboPlus are going to require tracking of pages read in a book so calling it invasive is a bit of a stretch.
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 01:58 PM   #26
haertig
Guru
haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.haertig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 991
Karma: 15300106
Join Date: Sep 2017
Device: PW3, Fire HD8 Gen7, Moto G7, Sansa Clip v2, Ruizu X26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
Perhaps Quoth can think of a way to have the number of pages read in a borrowed book tracked without having some form of tracking in place. I accept that Kindle Unlimited or KoboPlus are going to require tracking of pages read in a book so calling it invasive is a bit of a stretch.
How about some payment method that does not require them to know how many pages have been read? Base payment on something else, the obvious thing being that the book was borrowed or bought in the first place. Kind of like everything else in this world.

Amazon came up with a scheme to withhold money from authors by saying a deal is not a deal until the customer actually reads the book. Note that Amazon gets the KU subscription payment up front, without the book having to be read - they just withhold it from the authors. Pretty sneaky. And in some bizarre twist of logic, authors bought into that and (apparently) signed contracts based on it. What a stupid thing to do, but who am I to say? But the agreement between Amazon and authors in no way forces a burden on me to leave my WiFi on so they can track this data. Bad idea, bad implementation, bad results. But that's between Amazon and the authors.
haertig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 03:06 PM   #27
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,680
Karma: 19600000
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Note 4, Kobo One
Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
How about some payment method that does not require them to know how many pages have been read? Base payment on something else, the obvious thing being that the book was borrowed or bought in the first place. Kind of like everything else in this world.
Because authors try to cheat the system.

If it is just on number of books borrowed, they split one real book into single books per chapter. If it is books borrowed * number of pages, they combine lots together and pad it out to make one huge book and go for a click-bait title. If it is just number of borrows, not any metric of whether it was read or not, they get people or bots to just check the book out and never read it.

The system has gone through several iterations to make it harder to cheat or automate with bots.

The current system rewards authors whose books people actually choose to read all the way through, at the expense of authors whose books people read a small amount of and give up on without finishing.

That seems like a good outcome.

Quote:
Amazon came up with a scheme to withhold money from authors by saying a deal is not a deal until the customer actually reads the book. Note that Amazon gets the KU subscription payment up front, without the book having to be read
There is no financial difference to Amazon one way or another. The same amount of KU money gets divided up whatever the formula is, all that changes is which authors get more or less.

The same is true of Kobo's system, which uses minutes read rather than pages read, but is otherwise similar.
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2020, 03:17 PM   #28
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,241
Karma: 43666803
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by haertig View Post
How about some payment method that does not require them to know how many pages have been read? Base payment on something else, the obvious thing being that the book was borrowed or bought in the first place. Kind of like everything else in this world.
Amazon has tried multiple ways of determining Kindle Unlimited payouts and the obvious ones turn out to have negative consequences.

If the payout is a fixed amount per book then publishers are incentivized to publish only short works and to break up longer ones into a series with as few pages as possible in each one.

If the payout is based on the size of book and paid at borrow then unscrupulous publishers put out books with minimal content padded with many pages of junk.

If the payout is based on the furthest page read then publishers put the good content at the end with a link at the beginning to jump to it.

Even the current system based on actual pages read has been gamed. Amazon's technique for determining page reads is somewhat complicated in order to work around other scams that have been tried.

(Edit: Ninja'd)
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2020, 09:42 AM   #29
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,823
Karma: 22166592
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
That is your opinion, not fact.



As does the equivalent program from Kobo.
Online eRetail making their own rules and cheating content providers compared to traditional sales and royalties (shops and libraries) is an absolute fact.

Content providers should get paid whatever price they want per copy, and then retail sell at any price.
Libraries (even online etext) should pay full price or content providers library price (see Smashwords) for how many copies they lend at once and per borrrow royalty. NOT based on pages, as that is abusive tracking of users and not how it should work.

Amazon is making up their own rules to suit themselves, which abuse the privacy of readers and are contrary to what content providers want and contrary to law in many countries.
Content providers should not be forced to set a retail price. Amazon should pay a content providers price and for loans in UK or Ireland have the SAME rules as real libraries, ie pay for simultaneous copies at content provider's library rate AND pay the national agreed per borrow royalty.

It's time big Corporations using the Internet to Market and Sell have the same rules applied as everyone else and respect privacy and local laws.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2020, 10:36 AM   #30
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,680
Karma: 19600000
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Note 4, Kobo One
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Online eRetail making their own rules and cheating content providers compared to traditional sales and royalties (shops and libraries) is an absolute fact.
No it isn't.
Cheating means something.

Quote:
Content providers should get paid whatever price they want per copy, and then retail sell at any price.
That is how it used to work, then the content providers illegally colluded to force a change to the system they wanted, which is where they set the retail price and Amazon are forced to accept it.

Quote:
Amazon is making up their own rules to suit themselves, which abuse the privacy of readers and are contrary to what content providers want and contrary to law in many countries.
So now Amazon is breaking the law, but noone else has noticed?

Quote:
Content providers should not be forced to set a retail price. Amazon should pay a content providers price and for loans in UK or Ireland have the SAME rules as real libraries, ie pay for simultaneous copies at content provider's library rate AND pay the national agreed per borrow royalty.
KU is not the same as normal libraries.

In the UK and Ireland, publishers have no choice whether libraries can buy and lend their physical books, it is a legal right of the library they can't do anything about. In return, they get a legally specified payment for borrows.

With KU, authors/publishers have the choice. They can put their books in KU, accepting the terms Amazon offer, or choose not to. The only books in KU are ones the authors/publishers have decided to put there.

Should publishers/authors be forced to make their eBooks to be available for library borrowing? They aren't at the moment, and it is clear that several publishers would rather that eBook lending didn't exist at all.

Last edited by murraypaul; 12-16-2020 at 10:38 AM.
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kindle Owners’ Lending Library Gardenman Amazon Kindle 1 01-13-2016 01:31 AM
Kindle Owners Lending Library emmabee Amazon Kindle 6 04-03-2015 03:25 AM
My Library is lending for Kindle! ReneAZ Amazon Kindle 95 03-25-2012 04:56 PM
Kindle Owners’ Lending Library SCION News 56 11-05-2011 05:05 PM
Best library for Kindle lending gmreplay Amazon Kindle 3 09-28-2011 07:51 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.