What are we going to do about Adobe?

[ProfJulie]

Adobe changed the way their software worked without informing their users. This change messed up DRM books that users paid good money for. They have yet to fix this problem. I've only bought 2 DRM books that are in the PDF format, but if I had a more extensive collection of books, I've be very angry about this. Companies that change functionality in software that negatively impacts their users who have invested lots of money and depend on their product should be penalized. Customers have every right to sue a company over their losses and I don't view this as sue-happy in the least.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

Adobe changed the way their software worked without informing their users. This change messed up DRM books that users paid good money for. They have yet to fix this problem. I've only bought 2 DRM books that are in the PDF format, but if I had a more extensive collection of books, I've be very angry about this. Companies that change functionality in software that negatively impacts their users who have invested lots of money and depend on their product should be penalized. Customers have every right to sue a company over their losses and I don't view this as sue-happy in the least.

Those books you bought should work fine in DE. It is a spin off from the eBook functionality in Acrobat Reader.

Dale

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

If I pay money for an ebook and it stops working, I have suffered a loss. If the Adobe DRM on the file is the reason it stops working, then Adobe has caused my loss. Very few ebook retailers will give a refund, and none will because of DRM problems. Why shouldn't I sue Adobe?

What value do you place on your time?

The potential reward from the action you suggest does not justify the amount of effort you would need to put into it.

This sounds a lot more like a case of "Oh, yeah? Well I'll show you..." spite than any serious resolution to a problem.
______
Dennis

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Those books you bought should work fine in DE. It is a spin off from the eBook functionality in Acrobat Reader.Dale

My books work fine - I bought them long before Adobe Digital Editions was introduced and I had activated and transferred them to a new computer with no problem. But if you buy books and open them up in DE, then you will only be able to use them on the computer you opened the books on - and you will only be able to open them and read them in Adobe's extremely limited Digital Editions software. I have read many threads on Adobe's website from users who are very unhappy with DE because they are unable to transfer and open their books on new computers.

I own Adobe Acrobat 7.0 and regularly check PDF books out of a library. I have never had a problem reading library books on my computer or transferring them to read on my pocket pc until recently. Then one day I checked a couple of books out of the library and Digital Editions software was automatically installed on my computer without my knowing it. When I opened up the library books, they opened up in DE not Adobe Acrobat. After that I could not open those books up in Adobe Acrobat, could not transfer them to my pocket pc to read....I had to read the books on my computer in DE, which looks nice but is a really lousy application (in my opinion). Once I figured out what had happened, I deleted DE from my computer, changed the file association back to Adobe Acrobat. I will NEVER use DE again and will avoid DRM PDF books at all costs. My main objection is that this software was installed to my computer, without my knowledge. This software messed up my ability to read the books in the way I was accustomed and preferred to read them. I'm just relieved that I had only checked them out of the library and had not purchased them because if I had purchased them, I would still be limited to only reading them in DE and I would not be able to read them in Adobe Acrobat nor on my pocket pc.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

My books work fine, but if you buy books and open them up in DE, then you will only be able to use them on the computer you opened the books on - and you will only be able to open them and read them in Adobe's limited Digital Editions software. I have read many threads on Adobe's website from users who were unable to transfer and open their books on new computers.

I own Adobe Acrobat 7.0 and check books out of a library. I have never had a problem reading library books on my computer or transferring them to read on my pocket pc until recently. Then one day I checked a couple of books out of the library and Digital Editions software was automatically installed on my computer without my knowing it. When I opened up the library books, they opened up in DE not Adobe Acrobat. After that I could not open those books up in Adobe Acrobat, could not transfer them to my pocket pc to read....I had to read the books on my computer in DE, which is not a very useful piece of software. Once I figured out what had happened, I deleted DE from my computer, changed the file association back to Adobe Acrobat. I will NEVER use DE again and will avoid DRM PDF books at all costs. My main objection is that this software was installed to my computer, without my knowledge. This software messed up my ability to read the books in the way I was accustomed and preferred to read them. I'm just relieved that I had only checked them out of the library and had not purchased them because if I had purchased them, I still would not be able to read them in Adobe Acrobat and I would still not be able to read them on my pocket pc.

DE 1.5 allows multiple license, not locked to one machine. 1.0 was pretty primitive, I agree but 1.5 is better.

Dale

[ProfJulie]

Maybe so, but I will not be using it. Adobe, by forcing this change on me without my knowledge, has lost my business for good in regards to DRM books.

[SpiderMatt]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

If I pay money for an ebook and it stops working, I have suffered a loss. If the Adobe DRM on the file is the reason it stops working, then Adobe has caused my loss. Very few ebook retailers will give a refund, and none will because of DRM problems. Why shouldn't I sue Adobe?

You say that Adobe has done nothing wrong. Given all the many ways that a PDF can stop working due to the DRM, I must disagree.

P.S. Please note that I said small claims court in my previous post. I want people to sue Adobe only for the money spent on the PDFs. I did not suggest suing for absurd amounts of money.

Maybe I'm not understanding the problem. There is a difference between having an ebook stop working and having one stop working the way you want it to. As I understand it, these books still work in the DE software. This is the way Adobe intended the product to work and, even if Adobe hid it in the "small print," it's the consumer's responsibility to look into what they're purchasing and the products they use. When I installed DE, it was pretty obvious. I had to consent to the installation and a bar popped up to show the installation progress. Maybe I'm just more observant than the average computer user, but I would have found the whole process a little hard to miss.

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

My books work fine - I bought them long before Adobe Digital Editions was introduced and I had activated and transferred them to a new computer with no problem. But if you buy books and open them up in DE, then you will only be able to use them on the computer you opened the books on - and you will only be able to open them and read them in Adobe's extremely limited Digital Editions software. I have read many threads on Adobe's website from users who are very unhappy with DE because they are unable to transfer and open their books on new computers.

Can you purchase Adobe ebooks from sites like fictionwise.com and open them in Acrobat Reader? I would like it if I could do that. I thought Adobe made you download the ebooks through the DE software, which is what has kept me from buying certain ebooks.

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by SpiderMatt

Today's sue-happy society in the U.S. is completely reprehensible and disgusting.

I second that. You hit the nail on the head in noting that many consumers simply don't want to take responsibility for their buying decisions and habits.

At any rate, their suit would probably would not have merit unless they could demonstrate that they had contracted (expressed or implied) with Adobe that Adobe would provide a certain durability for the product they purchased.

Age old words were never truer; caveat emptor.

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

Maybe so, but I will not be using it. Adobe, by forcing this change on me without my knowledge, has lost my business for good in regards to DRM books.

And alas, this is the power consumers have and should exercise when a business fails to meet their expectations. Nothing gets their attention quicker than lost revenue.

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

Customers have every right to sue a company over their losses and I don't view this as sue-happy in the least.

Having "every right" to sue and having a suit that has merit can be vastly different things.

It would behoove anyone who seriously thinks about a lawsuit in this instance (as opposed to those posing idle threats) to consult an attorney to find out if your case actually has merit. Given the EULA's of today, your case may not be as strong as you think.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

What value do you place on your time?

The potential reward from the action you suggest does not justify the amount of effort you would need to put into it.

This sounds a lot more like a case of "Oh, yeah? Well I'll show you..." spite than any serious resolution to a problem.
______
Dennis

It doesn't take that long to file the paperwork for small claims court.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by SpiderMatt

Maybe I'm not understanding the problem. There is a difference between having an ebook stop working and having one stop working the way you want it to. As I understand it, these books still work in the DE software. This is the way Adobe intended the product to work and, even if Adobe hid it in the "small print," it's the consumer's responsibility to look into what they're purchasing and the products they use. When I installed DE, it was pretty obvious. I had to consent to the installation and a bar popped up to show the installation progress. Maybe I'm just more observant than the average computer user, but I would have found the whole process a little hard to miss.

What about the people whose PDFs stopped working because they had to reinstall the OS? It's happened. What about people whose PDFs stopped working for no other reason than a year had passed since the sale? That's happened.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

What about the people whose PDFs stopped working because they had to reinstall the OS? It's happened. What about people whose PDFs stopped working for no other reason than a year had passed since the sale? That's happened.

But did the licence terms under which you bought it make any claim other than it would work at that time? ie, were you really buying the "guaranteed" right to be able to read it forever and a day thereafter?

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But did the licence terms under which you bought it make any claim other than it would work at that time? ie, were you really buying the "guaranteed" right to be able to read it forever and a day thereafter?

Harry, unless the license is explicitly described as time limited, one naturally assumes that the license doesn't end.

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by SpiderMatt

Can you purchase Adobe ebooks from sites like fictionwise.com and open them in Acrobat Reader? I would like it if I could do that. I thought Adobe made you download the ebooks through the DE software, which is what has kept me from buying certain ebooks.

If you use the full version of Adobe Reader 7.0 you should be able to use it to read your DRM books (assuming you have activated your computer through Adobe's website). DE is not required, but it is often the default reader nowadays for PDF books. You'll need to completely uninstall DE from your computer first and then you should check to make sure the PDF file association is set to Adobe Reader. You can see what Fictionwise says about this here:

http://www.fictionwise.com/help/adobe_reader_help.htm