Can I ask Why was my thread deleted?

Stratogirl · 07-07-2011, 09:08 AM

A few hours ago I posted a new thread asking help on converting a djvu book into mobi format.
I came back to check on the thread and it is gone and I have no message in my inbox about it.
I apologize if the thread somehow violated the terms of the forum, but I would like to know what exactly was wrong so that I can avoid in the future.

WT Sharpe · 07-07-2011, 10:04 AM

I was just about to send a PM, but since you asked this in a public thread, I'll reply with what we were going to send.

Dear Stratogirl,

The thread Help converting Djvu to mobi was closed due to its reference to a pirated ebook. MR is firmly opposed to ebook piracy, and does not allow discussions on how to circumvent the law in any form. Our Guidelines specifically prohibit requests for instructions on how to break the law, and more than one member has been banned for doing so.

Had your request been simply on how to convert a book from one format to another, that would have been fine, but you very specifically asked for help on how to convert a book you had pirated, and that is strictly against our policy.

Please take this under advisement in future postings.

Thank you.

Tom [moderator]

Latinandgreek · 07-07-2011, 10:33 AM

In all fairness, the book in question could have been a public domain book, no? I have scanned public domain books before for personal use. I couldn't find a reference to a pirated book in the thread linked in your message.

Stratogirl · 07-07-2011, 02:12 PM

I was given a djvu file contained the scanned book and I wanted to convert it to mobi, thats all.

I dont know if it is in public domain or not.
But I know that it is not available in my country and Amazon has it but they won't sell it to my country.

The book is John Gribbin - In Search of Shroedinger's Cat.
I need it to write a paper so if anyone anyone has it in print and want to sell it to me and is willing to ship it to Romania and accept payment via Moneygram or Western Union, send me a PM, please.

odiakkoh · 07-07-2011, 03:10 PM

It's not public domain.

karunaji · 07-07-2011, 05:08 PM

So, a poor Romanian gets double slapped in face. Once by big companies that did not sell her a book she wanted to buy and a second time when she has put a lot of effort to convert this book into a readable format and asks for advice with Word formatting that by itself has nothing to do with piracy whatsoever.

And all this just because she was too honest to frankly tell the whole story. I feel your pain. And probably also your disappointment about western hypocrisy where you are clean as long as you talk in a certain indirect way avoiding secret keywords, even though everybody knows what's actually going on.

What do you think all those indirect talks about DRM removal tools that are not and will never be available on MR are? Not legally but as an encouragement of what? If your answer starts with a p, you have learned your lesson today.

Stingo · 07-07-2011, 05:30 PM

Tom,

I fully understand that you don't want the forum sued for promoting illegal activity. However, last year the Library of Congress removed restrictions on removal of DRM where:

Literary works distributed in ebook format when all existing ebook editions of the work (including digital text editions made available by authorized entities) contain access controls that prevent the enabling either of the book’s read-aloud function or of screen readers that render the text into a specialized format.

Although not explicit, LoC will probably eventually hold that owners of DRM protected media and devices to remove the DRM for personal archival purposes or for transfer to a new device once the old device is no longer supported. This would be consistent with other rulings.

Why should the forum not consider softening its policy on the discussion of DRM removal in cases were piracy is not discussed? Sorry if this was asked and answered.

Stingo

odiakkoh · 07-07-2011, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karunaji

So, a poor Romanian gets double slapped in face. Once by big companies that did not sell her a book she wanted to buy and a second time when she has put a lot of effort to convert this book into a readable format and asks for advice with Word formatting that by itself has nothing to do with piracy whatsoever.

And all this just because she was too honest to frankly tell the whole story. I feel your pain. And probably also your disappointment about western hypocrisy where you are clean as long as you talk in a certain indirect way avoiding secret keywords, even though everybody knows what's actually going on.

What do you think all those indirect talks about DRM removal tools that are not and will never be available on MR are? Not legally but as an encouragement of what? If your answer starts with a p, you have learned your lesson today.

Well the whole story does make a big difference. "Hey how do you get blood out of a shirt, I got a bloody noise" will get a different reaction from "Hey how do you get blood out of a shirt, I stabbed a guy and he squirted all over me".

:P

kennyc · 07-07-2011, 06:13 PM

I know nothing about that format, but here's a http://djvu.sourceforge.net/ viewer for it...

karunaji · 07-07-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odiakkoh

Well the whole story does make a big difference. "Hey how do you get blood out of a shirt, I got a bloody noise" will get a different reaction from "Hey how do you get blood out of a shirt, I stabbed a guy and he squirted all over me".

:P

It is still not right if you deny the guy your advice but take no further action like reporting him to authorities. Because in such case how do you know that he isn't joking?

Besides I wouldn't compare this case with a crime. It is rather on the level of speeding. If your car broke down due to going too fast and you went to auto mechanic he can still fix it even if you brag about your driving. Probably not on warranty but fixing cars is not illegal. Discussions about fixing speeding cars are also ok. The problematic part would be where you discussed how to speed and avoid getting caught. You would want to avoid hosting such things publicly.

But then she didn't tell the whole story only after the thread was closed. Not everybody would assume that converting djvu into mobi indicates piracy. This case has nothing to do with DRM, it was just a scanned paper book. Apparently there is a fine line about how far you can go and still be considered legal. The whole thing is very arbitrary and does not make much sense anyway.

GoSharks · 07-07-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karunaji

...a poor Romanian gets double slapped.... western hypocrisy......learned your lesson today.

Seriously?! Feeling a little downtrodden today?

odiakkoh · 07-07-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karunaji

It is still not right if you deny the guy your advice but take no further action like reporting authorities. Because in such case how do you know that he isn't joking?

Besides I wouldn't compare this case with a crime. It is rather on the level of speeding. If your car broke down due to going too fast and you went to auto mechanics he can still fix it even if brag about your driving. Probably not on warranty but fixing cars is not illegal. Discussing fixing cars is also ok. The problematic part would be where you discussed how to speed and avoid getting caught. You would want to avoid hosting such things publicly.

But then she didn't tell the whole story only after the thread was closed. Not everybody would assume that converting djvu into mobi indicates piracy. This case has nothing to do with DRM, just a scanned paper book. Apparently there is a fine line about how far you can go and still be considered legal. The whole thing is very arbitrary and does make much sense anyway.

Lol I was being silly, no need to overanalyze my comparison. It was meant to be over the top.

Seriously though, when it comes to piracy and any chance this forum can have legal action taken against them, I rather they be safe than sorry.

DRM on the other hand is a gray issue. It's not illegal everywhere.

karunaji · 07-07-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odiakkoh

Seriously though, when it comes to piracy and any chance this forum can have legal action taken against them, I rather they be safe than sorry.

So, in the long term it would mean that no questions how to convert e-books from one format to another are allowed anymore? Because you can always rightly assume that there are pirated books involved.

kennyc · 07-07-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karunaji

So, in the long term it would mean that no questions how to convert e-books from one format to another are allowed anymore? Because you can always rightly assume that there are pirated books involved.

No you can't (assume there were pirated books involved) unless the poster says that. I don't know why a pirated book would have DRM on it anyway.....doesn't make sense to me...but possible I guess. Hell virtually anything you can name is out there on the darknet in various non-drm formats.

As far as DRM I feel that if I purchase something I have a right to do what I want with it, whether that's delete it, back it up, copy it to a different computer or reader or remove drm from it.

odiakkoh · 07-07-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karunaji

So, in the long term it would mean that no questions how to convert e-books from one format to another are allowed anymore? Because you can always rightly assume that there are pirated books involved.

Sure if that's how you want to twist my words you're more than welcome to do so

07-07-2011, 09:08 AM	#1
Stratogirl Member Posts: 13 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 3	Can I ask Why was my thread deleted? A few hours ago I posted a new thread asking help on converting a djvu book into mobi format. I came back to check on the thread and it is gone and I have no message in my inbox about it. I apologize if the thread somehow violated the terms of the forum, but I would like to know what exactly was wrong so that I can avoid in the future.

07-07-2011, 02:12 PM	#4
Stratogirl Member Posts: 13 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 3	I was given a djvu file contained the scanned book and I wanted to convert it to mobi, thats all. I dont know if it is in public domain or not. But I know that it is not available in my country and Amazon has it but they won't sell it to my country. The book is John Gribbin - In Search of Shroedinger's Cat. I need it to write a paper so if anyone anyone has it in print and want to sell it to me and is willing to ship it to Romania and accept payment via Moneygram or Western Union, send me a PM, please. Last edited by Stratogirl; 07-07-2011 at 02:19 PM.

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07-07-2011, 10:04 AM	#2
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,073 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	I was just about to send a PM, but since you asked this in a public thread, I'll reply with what we were going to send. Dear Stratogirl, The thread Help converting Djvu to mobi was closed due to its reference to a pirated ebook. MR is firmly opposed to ebook piracy, and does not allow discussions on how to circumvent the law in any form. Our Guidelines specifically prohibit requests for instructions on how to break the law, and more than one member has been banned for doing so. Had your request been simply on how to convert a book from one format to another, that would have been fine, but you very specifically asked for help on how to convert a book you had pirated, and that is strictly against our policy. Please take this under advisement in future postings. Thank you. Tom [moderator]

07-07-2011, 10:33 AM	#3
Latinandgreek Warrior Princess Posts: 5,038 Karma: 9724231 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505; PRS-350, PRS-T1, iPad, Aura HD	In all fairness, the book in question could have been a public domain book, no? I have scanned public domain books before for personal use. I couldn't find a reference to a pirated book in the thread linked in your message.

07-07-2011, 03:10 PM	#5
odiakkoh Guru Posts: 823 Karma: 1818344 Join Date: Apr 2011 Device: iPhone 5s	It's not public domain.

07-07-2011, 05:08 PM	#6
karunaji Evangelist Posts: 421 Karma: 1033566 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Latvia Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Bookeen Opus	So, a poor Romanian gets double slapped in face. Once by big companies that did not sell her a book she wanted to buy and a second time when she has put a lot of effort to convert this book into a readable format and asks for advice with Word formatting that by itself has nothing to do with piracy whatsoever. And all this just because she was too honest to frankly tell the whole story. I feel your pain. And probably also your disappointment about western hypocrisy where you are clean as long as you talk in a certain indirect way avoiding secret keywords, even though everybody knows what's actually going on. What do you think all those indirect talks about DRM removal tools that are not and will never be available on MR are? Not legally but as an encouragement of what? If your answer starts with a p, you have learned your lesson today.

07-07-2011, 05:30 PM	#7
Stingo Fanatic Posts: 559 Karma: 1334691 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Miami Device: KH2O, KPW2, KDXG, KPW1, K3, S505	Tom, I fully understand that you don't want the forum sued for promoting illegal activity. However, last year the Library of Congress removed restrictions on removal of DRM where: Literary works distributed in ebook format when all existing ebook editions of the work (including digital text editions made available by authorized entities) contain access controls that prevent the enabling either of the book’s read-aloud function or of screen readers that render the text into a specialized format. Although not explicit, LoC will probably eventually hold that owners of DRM protected media and devices to remove the DRM for personal archival purposes or for transfer to a new device once the old device is no longer supported. This would be consistent with other rulings. Why should the forum not consider softening its policy on the discussion of DRM removal in cases were piracy is not discussed? Sorry if this was asked and answered. Stingo

07-07-2011, 06:13 PM	#9
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,872 Karma: 118716293 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	I know nothing about that format, but here's a http://djvu.sourceforge.net/ viewer for it...