Extreme Editing - Page 2

dlmartin6 · 05-21-2010, 02:23 PM

Between my co-author and I, we end up cutting lots and then adding more back in in later drafts. We don't usually love a book until about the 5th draft.

Deb

ASparrow · 05-21-2010, 09:13 PM

Five drafts sounds about right. This one went through about three or four before this latest savaging (Some of the early chapters have probably been rewritten over a dozen times).

I'm down to 83k now, and hope that's the minimum. I've cut it down to bone is some places and will need to flesh it back up.

ASparrow · 05-21-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxx6166

Actually, I think I need to add about 15k to draft 2. .. I'm at 62 now, which is down from the 65 I had in november. But, I want to have 80 by the end of June. Which won't happen, especially with JuNo coming up.

What's "JuNo"?

Pardon my ignorance.

Roger Parkinson · 05-30-2010, 09:50 PM

Sometimes it is good to work on the assumption you're writing more than you'll need. I think film producers do this, then they have a 'cutting room floor' for all the stuff that didn't make it. Sometimes that ends up on a DVD, usually not. It was expensive to make it but you just can't know beforehand what will make it in the final cut. Well, I can't anyway. So writing tons and cutting works for me.

ASparrow · 05-31-2010, 04:53 AM

I ended up with 87k out of the 185k I started with. Now, the thing I worry about is not necessarily "did I cut too much?" but "is it it long enough to be a novel?" 87k seems a little short to me, but then again, its written mostly in first person, present tense so maybe it needs to be short. Any material I add would likely be internal monologue or back story.

As for the stuff I left on the cutting room floor - long may it rot.

Roger Parkinson · 05-31-2010, 03:40 PM

87k? What is that in words. Sorry, I may seem old fashioned in this but you can change the size of the file by storing in different formats, even simple text can be stored in double byte chars which would presumably double the size of the file without changing the word count. I usually shoot for 100k words because that feels right to me. But shorter is fine. Actually with eBooks pretty much any length is fine. My wife is somewhat prolific and her books would have to be expensive to print, but this is never an issue with eBooks (okay, with a little imagination I guess several GB would be a problem, but they aren't that long!)

I found some of my own stuff was really short (about a page) when I was into a minimalist phase. I collected a bunch of them into a single eBook. That was quite satisfying.

Bilbo1967 · 05-31-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Parkinson

87k? What is that in words. Sorry, I may seem old fashioned in this but you can change the size of the file by storing in different formats, even simple text can be stored in double byte chars which would presumably double the size of the file without changing the word count.

I assumed that Sparrow meant 87,000 words (not 87kb file size)? Was I wrong?

ASparrow · 05-31-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

I assumed that Sparrow meant 87,000 words (not 87kb file size)? Was I wrong?

87,000 words. That's correct. I suppose that's where it will stay, as everything that needs to happen already happens in the story, it seems to me.

Shayne Parkinson · 06-01-2010, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MV64

Do you guys generally save what you cut in a separate file? I usually do when I cut big chunks out, because you never know when you could use it (in an altered form of course) in the future for another book.

Yes, I do, because if I didn't save it I'd wake up in the middle of the night convinced that it was the best thing I'd ever written, and I'd made a dreadful mistake deleting it.

As it is, I file it away carefully and will probably never look at it again

Though I do make some available as an "extended edition".

Roger Parkinson · 06-01-2010, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASparrow

87,000 words. That's correct. I suppose that's where it will stay, as everything that needs to happen already happens in the story, it seems to me.

Duh! I'll catch up eventually. I assumed an invisible 'b' after the 'k'.
Sounds like your editing is done, must feel good.
But did you specifically target 87k words? Why that number?
(We've just been watching 'Monk' and, if you know the show, you'd know Monk would insist you took it up to 90k, but preferably 100k)

ASparrow · 06-01-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Parkinson

Duh! I'll catch up eventually. I assumed an invisible 'b' after the 'k'.
Sounds like your editing is done, must feel good.
But did you specifically target 87k words? Why that number?
(We've just been watching 'Monk' and, if you know the show, you'd know Monk would insist you took it up to 90k, but preferably 100k)

No, I didn't target 87k and that's why I'm nervous. When Lethe was up at 185k my target was getting it down to 125k, and then as I kept cutting I told myself I'd stop at 100k. But I kept going, all the way down to 84k before building it back up a bit. I'm hoping my Beta readers can help me identify some holes or gaps that need filling with some new writing.

TC Beacham · 06-01-2010, 12:51 PM

Good on ya!

Drives me crazy when characters dilly-dally without advancing the plot or the writer tells me what they're doing every minute of the day. Sleek is great!

L.J. Sellers · 06-02-2010, 01:28 AM

My first draft is always a little lean, mostly action and dialogue. So I always add descriptions and sometimes whole scenes in my second draft, sometimes up to 7000 words. Then in the third draft, I cut adverbs and other little excesses, around 1000 words.
But I've never written a book longer than 95,000 words. Whenever I cut whole chunks, I save them for possible future use.
L.J

Greenkeeper · 06-02-2010, 03:28 PM

My second book was 80k and I cut it down to 70k, and I thought that was a lot at the time. It was mostly exposition on how things worked in my fantasy world that basically turned one of my main characters into little more than a walking tour guide. Once these sections were removed she became a better character for it and the story's pace picked up tremendously. I can't imagine cutting as much as you did, though; For me that'd be like finishing a book, typing "The End" and then dumping it.

David McAfee · 06-02-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Dean

The real question is this: have you ever ADDED a ton when editing?

The first draft for 33 A.D. was only 57K words long. the published version is 93K.

I write that way on purpose. I usually just set the bones of the story down, then flesh it out later.

06-01-2010, 12:51 PM	#27
TC Beacham Great Beach Reads! Posts: 202 Karma: 300000 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Kindle 2	Good on ya! Drives me crazy when characters dilly-dally without advancing the plot or the writer tells me what they're doing every minute of the day. Sleek is great! Last edited by TC Beacham; 06-01-2010 at 12:58 PM.

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05-21-2010, 02:23 PM	#16
dlmartin6 Debra L Martin Posts: 79 Karma: 114 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Greater Boston area Device: Kindle	Between my co-author and I, we end up cutting lots and then adding more back in in later drafts. We don't usually love a book until about the 5th draft. Deb

05-21-2010, 09:13 PM	#17
ASparrow Addict Posts: 355 Karma: 600000 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Boston Device: Palm TX	Five drafts sounds about right. This one went through about three or four before this latest savaging (Some of the early chapters have probably been rewritten over a dozen times). I'm down to 83k now, and hope that's the minimum. I've cut it down to bone is some places and will need to flesh it back up.

05-30-2010, 09:50 PM	#19
Roger Parkinson Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 108036 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Device: Samsung Galaxy S	Sometimes it is good to work on the assumption you're writing more than you'll need. I think film producers do this, then they have a 'cutting room floor' for all the stuff that didn't make it. Sometimes that ends up on a DVD, usually not. It was expensive to make it but you just can't know beforehand what will make it in the final cut. Well, I can't anyway. So writing tons and cutting works for me.

05-31-2010, 04:53 AM	#20
ASparrow Addict Posts: 355 Karma: 600000 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Boston Device: Palm TX	I ended up with 87k out of the 185k I started with. Now, the thing I worry about is not necessarily "did I cut too much?" but "is it it long enough to be a novel?" 87k seems a little short to me, but then again, its written mostly in first person, present tense so maybe it needs to be short. Any material I add would likely be internal monologue or back story. As for the stuff I left on the cutting room floor - long may it rot.

05-31-2010, 03:40 PM	#21
Roger Parkinson Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 108036 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Device: Samsung Galaxy S	87k? What is that in words. Sorry, I may seem old fashioned in this but you can change the size of the file by storing in different formats, even simple text can be stored in double byte chars which would presumably double the size of the file without changing the word count. I usually shoot for 100k words because that feels right to me. But shorter is fine. Actually with eBooks pretty much any length is fine. My wife is somewhat prolific and her books would have to be expensive to print, but this is never an issue with eBooks (okay, with a little imagination I guess several GB would be a problem, but they aren't that long!) I found some of my own stuff was really short (about a page) when I was into a minimalist phase. I collected a bunch of them into a single eBook. That was quite satisfying.

06-02-2010, 01:28 AM	#28
L.J. Sellers Novelist Posts: 287 Karma: 387979 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eugene, Oregon Device: Kindle	My first draft is always a little lean, mostly action and dialogue. So I always add descriptions and sometimes whole scenes in my second draft, sometimes up to 7000 words. Then in the third draft, I cut adverbs and other little excesses, around 1000 words. But I've never written a book longer than 95,000 words. Whenever I cut whole chunks, I save them for possible future use. L.J

06-02-2010, 03:28 PM	#29
Greenkeeper Connoisseur Posts: 67 Karma: 520312 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Texas Device: Kindle	My second book was 80k and I cut it down to 70k, and I thought that was a lot at the time. It was mostly exposition on how things worked in my fantasy world that basically turned one of my main characters into little more than a walking tour guide. Once these sections were removed she became a better character for it and the story's pace picked up tremendously. I can't imagine cutting as much as you did, though; For me that'd be like finishing a book, typing "The End" and then dumping it.

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