Dealing with Amazon can be a right pain

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Can you be gifted the last installment?

Thanks for the offer, but I doubt it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Thanks for the offer, but I doubt it.

No, you can't give as a gift a book that's not available for the recipient to buy.

[GeoffR]

The Amazon.com site has always had problems with inconsistent internationalisation. Viewed from New Zealand there are some parts which show the US price/availability until I go to buy the book when it is suddenly not available or the price increases because it realises that I am not in the US. The Author pages are one of the problem areas, the search pages are also affected. Reporting the problem to Amazon many times over a number of years has not lead to any fix.

in the OP's case it seems obvious where the problem lies: reader wants to buy the book, author wants to sell it to them, but Amazon stands in the way.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Well I am not sure I would call this a relationship.
I did mis-interpret how you got the books and I am sorry about that.
When have I ever insulted you?
I am not the one that called someone else's post dog balls.
I have never accused you of anything either.

Well any kind of interaction with someone else is a relationship of sorts.

I didn't call your post Dog Balls, just that something was as obvious as dog balls (a common saying ... round my neck of the woods at least). It was only later that my mind noticed your Dog avatar, and made the connection ... funny I thought, considering.

Maybe a misunderstanding occurred, and if that is the case, then I too apologize ... heck I apologize anyway ... rather be friendly.

Your cake bit seemed to be insinuating something not nice about me, and that on top of not properly reading what I had written earlier, tipped the balance. And your generally tone and avant-garde silliness didn't help.

I don't understand one thing, you said you didn't buy 3 books but 3 segments and that you bought them months ago. Did you know they were segments? And if you knew there was a fourth part coming why didn't you wait to buy them to make sure you could get all of them?

Like I said, been burned by too many authors not completing what they started.

I answered the first part in another post.

Never happened to me before. I guess the closest I've gotten was when Robert Jordan died, and it wasn't his fault, and he cared enough for me and others to let someone else finish up using his remaining bits & pieces.

I guess it remains to be seen, what happens with George R.R. Martin.

Oh and just so you know, I don't like segmented books.

Depends for me.

So truce.

Truce indeed.

And just so you know, I am a big fan of Robust conversation, but there are different versions of that out there. In my version, it is quite okay to tell someone they are being silly, dumb, stupid, whatever. We are all that at times. It is however not okay to say someone is stupid etc, especially if couched like - obviously you are a stupid person. That is an insult for sure, and not within the bounds of respectful behavior.

Respectful behavior though, also includes listening/reading properly, plus being tolerant of another view point you don't agree with.

In the end, it is about language and how you use it, and the semantics related to your culture no doubt, etc. We Aussies tend to say it like we think it is, but temper that with a heavy dose of fair play.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

The Amazon.com site has always had problems with inconsistent internationalisation. Viewed from New Zealand there are some parts which show the US price/availability until I go to buy the book when it is suddenly not available or the price increases because it realises that I am not in the US. The Author pages are one of the problem areas, the search pages are also affected. Reporting the problem to Amazon many times over a number of years has not lead to any fix.

After a few issues with Amazon now, I am starting to dread having any further chats with them. You write it all out, maybe even send the full detail in an email. None of it makes a difference, as they still want to painfully step through a bunch of unnecessary things. It feels like you are in some terrible slow horror movie, where you alone can see what's coming and no one will listen to you, and they all appear to be in B&W and mono, while you are operating in color & surround sound. A dreadfully painful experience. And when they finally get it in the end, you are so grateful, and even though you have been tortured by them, that you thank them with kind friendly words.

in the OP's case it seems obvious where the problem lies: reader wants to buy the book, author wants to sell it to them, but Amazon stands in the way.

I guess that sums it up quite nicely, if rather simplistically all things considered.

[issybird]

I'm putting on my mod hat here. First, the word "stupid" is to be avoided. The difference between "you are stupid" and "you are being stupid" doesn't pass muster. Second, leave the moderation to the moderators, please. If you have an issue, use the report button.

[Timboli]

Now for all you naysayers.

As far as I am concerned, I entered into a contract with both Amazon and the Author, plus any Publisher, when I bought the first part of the story. There was an unwritten promise, but obligation all the same, that I would be able to get all parts of the full story when available. I gave them money as an investment. Paying for the first part was a down payment ... as were the second and third payments. All installments if you like.

Now if that story was never completed, I would have to accept that as just bad luck. I would have to write it off as an investment loss. Crap happens and one has to be realistic and understanding, especially when it comes to authors and the creative urge.

However, the full story was completed, and there is no logical or ethical or moral grounds for them to withhold it from me.

It is clear and as simple as that.

All the other things many of you have brought up, many of them fine, are all beside the point and don't really matter. This is not a what if situation. What I could or didn't do is neither here or there.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by HarryT

David Gerrold, by any chance?

That is what I was thinking too.
Apache

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Timboli

However, the full story was completed, and there is no logical or ethical or moral grounds for them to withhold it from me.

The question is not one of logic, ethics or morality, though (about which I agree with you, BTW), but simply whether you have any legitimate grounds, under either Amazon's terms of service or consumer law, of either demanding a refund for the parts you've already bought, or requiring Amazon to supply you with the content they're declining to sell you. Unfortunately I don't think you do.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Well any kind of interaction with someone else is a relationship of sorts.

I didn't call your post Dog Balls, just that something was as obvious as dog balls (a common saying ... round my neck of the woods at least). It was only later that my mind noticed your Dog avatar, and made the connection ... funny I thought, considering.

Maybe a misunderstanding occurred, and if that is the case, then I too apologize ... heck I apologize anyway ... rather be friendly.

Your cake bit seemed to be insinuating something not nice about me, and that on top of not properly reading what I had written earlier, tipped the balance. And your generally tone and avant-garde silliness didn't help.


I answered the first part in another post.

Never happened to me before. I guess the closest I've gotten was when Robert Jordan died, and it wasn't his fault, and he cared enough for me and others to let someone else finish up using his remaining bits & pieces.

I guess it remains to be seen, what happens with George R.R. Martin.


Depends for me.



Truce indeed.

And just so you know, I am a big fan of Robust conversation, but there are different versions of that out there. In my version, it is quite okay to tell someone they are being silly, dumb, stupid, whatever. We are all that at times. It is however not okay to say someone is stupid etc, especially if couched like - obviously you are a stupid person. That is an insult for sure, and not within the bounds of respectful behavior.

Respectful behavior though, also includes listening/reading properly, plus being tolerant of another view point you don't agree with.

In the end, it is about language and how you use it, and the semantics related to your culture no doubt, etc. We Aussies tend to say it like we think it is, but temper that with a heavy dose of fair play.

Yes, I do think we had a misunderstanding. I had never heard the dog balls statement before and yes I giggled thinking you had said it because of my avatar.

Around this parts, I think the term would not be dog balls but bull sh*t. Same thinking just yours is a bit more refined.

On the cake statement, I was thinking that it took guts/cajones/balls to think one should be entitled to something like that (cake or refund on books that one had bought and read).


Now back to your problem, it sounds like Amazon only realized the once that you are not in the US and it happened to have been on one you really wanted.

I never thought you were stupid. Never even implied it or wasn't trying too. Note, every time I asked I used the word entitled which has a totally different meaning and I actually asked should I be entitled to a refund because an author never finished the promised series.

And yes, all of your postings have to do with Kindle Worlds which you are not really supposed to get but due to a glitch somewhere you obviously are getting.

Anyway once again, good luck with finding out the ending. Sorry but Wool is not one of the worlds I read. I love the man but just couldn't get into the story. Yes, I have read the freebie.

It could be worse. You could be among the knitters that bought the Wool saga thinking it was about yarn. There were no refunds on ebooks back then.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The question is not one of logic, ethics or morality, though (about which I agree with you, BTW), but simply whether you have any legitimate grounds, under either Amazon's terms of service or consumer law, of either demanding a refund for the parts you've already bought, or requiring Amazon to supply you with the content they're declining to sell you. Unfortunately I don't think you do.

I guess that is one of the differences between the US and AUS. We have rulings about Fair Play and Reasonable Expectations.

I have never said Amazon can't scapegoat by playing hardball with their terms of service etc, but that it would be wrong for them to do so.

Not all Laws are written ones, and neither are Logic or Ethics or Morality bound by written Laws.

[Tarana]

Amazon does a lot right, but gets some stuff wrong which is frustrating. I sypmathize with you over your issue Timboli. I ran into the problem of buying a series and I should have bought them all at the same time as suddenly, the audiobooks were withdrawn from sale. Seems the contract expired and the British publisher was not extending it so now there were georestrictions on the rest of the series. You could NOT GET THE FIRST BOOK! Here I own 5 of the 7 audiobooks (which were sale priced at the time), but now couldn't even start because I couldn't get the first book. This was not Amazon's fault, but the publisher. It's not like they run out of copies at Audible. The funny thing is that while I couldn't get the audiobook for this series, those in the UK couldn't get the ebook because it was...yes... georestricted to the US (UK author!)!

And yes, my audiobook dilemma was resolved some time ago, but it just is annoying when things don't have to be so darn hard. The whole goal, I thought, was to sell books to make the author money!

Someone will ask - the series was Midsommer Murders by Caroline Graham.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, you can't give as a gift a book that's not available for the recipient to buy.

In that case, I would use a VPN and buy it.

[Timboli]

This situation, and the comments from others here, plus thoughts that have been rolling around in my head for a long time, inspired me to start an Obligations & Trust topic, that some of you might like to read and or have your say in.

Of course, what I am saying there extends well beyond just ebooks.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Fbone

In that case, I would use a VPN and buy it.

I have certainly considered doing that, but from my research things are not as simple as they might seem at first.

When you dig into all the things you need to do to make it successful and safe, it is a lot of trouble to go to ... and from what I can see, costly.

i.e. You need another PC, another Kindle and another Credit Card ... plus US business address. You can probably forgo the extra Kindle, by using a DRM removed copy of your purchase, but that is about the only cost saving I can see ... a significant one though.