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Old 03-05-2018, 04:17 PM   #166
pwalker8
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Very true. The US itself is a major culprit too, but by no means the only one. You may recall another recent one involving Canada. At the end of the day it is mostly dependant upon the extent to which local courts are prepared to enforce the foreign decisions concerned. Beyond this, it becomes a question of diplomacy. I suspect PG here is simply acting prudently. What amazes me about these types of disputes is that effective site-blocking has so far proven to be impossible, and I expect it to remain that way.
Absolutely, the US is a major culprit, especially when it comes to collecting taxes!

Of course effective site-blocking is not terribly feasible. That's pretty much how the internet is designed. In theory, you could only allow connections from trusted hosts (white listing), but that defeats the purpose of being on the internet.
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:10 PM   #167
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Not true. Totally out of sync on audio recordings. . . .
Audio recordings is a patchwork mess due to Congress. The common sense solution is to rewrite the law so sound recordings are treated the same as a book publication. Pre-1978 recordings would then be original release + 95 years while post-1978 would be Life + 70 for artist(s), lyricist(s) and composer(s)
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:20 AM   #168
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Audio recordings is a patchwork mess due to Congress. The common sense solution is to rewrite the law so sound recordings are treated the same as a book publication. Pre-1978 recordings would then be original release + 95 years while post-1978 would be Life + 70 for artist(s), lyricist(s) and composer(s)
Audio book recording are a bit of a mess because there are multiple artists involved and audio book recordings are closer to a performance, a la music or a movie rather than a book. A life+ system doesn't really work well in that situation.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:04 AM   #169
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Audio book recording are a bit of a mess because there are multiple artists involved and audio book recordings are closer to a performance, a la music or a movie rather than a book. A life+ system doesn't really work well in that situation.
Don't see how it could have shorter copyright than the book. Who is to prevent it being drug through a speech recognition filter to have a copy of the book?
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:51 AM   #170
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Don't see how it could have shorter copyright than the book. Who is to prevent it being drug through a speech recognition filter to have a copy of the book?
Within the EU, the law is as follows:

The length of term of copyright in a sound recording depends on whether or not it has been published (released) or has been communicated to the public (for example, played on the radio)
  • if a recording is not published or communicated to the public, copyright lasts for 50 years from when the recording was made
  • if a recording is published within 50 years of when it was made, copyright lasts for 70 years from the year it was first published
  • if a recording is not published within 50 years of when it was made, but it is communicated to the public, copyright lasts for 70 years from the year it was first communicated to the public
  • if a recording is first communicated to the public within 50 years of when it was made and is then published at a later date (but within 70 years of its first communication to the public), copyright lasts for 70 years from the year it was first published

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...und-recordings

Ie, any recording that's been published has a copyright term of 70 years from the date of publication. This is a change to the law that was in force up until 2011, under which the copyright term of a recording was 50 years from the date of the recording.

Last edited by HarryT; 03-07-2018 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:39 AM   #171
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The US laws has everything under copyright until 2076. There was no Federal sound copyright until 1972, it had been on a state-by-state basis before that. California and New Jersey had the most restrictive laws.
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:03 PM   #172
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Capitalism is not likely the only culprit

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That's a really interesting situation and a fascinating conflict. The publishers were right in thinking that Googles project could eventually lead to business disaster. Not overnight but if the books became available like that publishers and booksellers would lose a lot of sales and over time a lot more till they eventually became almost irrelevant.

On the other hand it just might have been one of the major cultural milestones in history. I remember reading an article, maybe 20 or 30 years ago, listing the events that changed civilization most. These included, according to that article, agriculture, which lead to cities and government, the discovery that the universe didn't revolve around the Earth, pointing out how unimportant we are, Freud's discovery of the subconscious and the invention of the atom bomb, which told us we could come to an end at any time. I suspect that the internet probably belongs on that list as well but that article was too long ago for that to be considered.

The Google project, in a similar article written a few hundred years in the future, might be on that list and even top it if it had been allowed to proceed. And yet the things that brought it down were very real. That just might be a tragic flaw in capitalism.
No doubt Capitalism played the major role in this but you cannot overlook possible underlying supporting cultural factors. Americans are anti-intellectual and anti-intellectual video culture has overtaken print culture since at least the advent of the T.V. That is the reason eReaders are a dwindling niche market (Kobo Aura One and the Oasis are good side affects of this trend , though, for us literati we get better ereaders but less choice). I bet more people have iPads and other tablets than eReaders and that is not because Tablets are equally good at reading but because most people want the tablets for other more anti-intellectual features while reading books is more of a less important afterthought function to them.

Now don't get me wrong I am not attacking Americans here. I am American, from New York, but America is anti-intellectual like the Roman empire rather than intellectual like the ancient Greeks. This is undeniable, for instance, see books like : The Age of American Unreason by Susan Jacoby and Anti-intellectualism in American Life by Richard Hofstadter etc...

You know what ? Librarians, scholars and other people trying to keep their position in the capitalist system in relation to books or the gate keepers of knowledge may have been over ruled by Google if they bribed the court or politicians or whatnot to have the court rule on their side. Why did not capitalism function in this desired way ? As Steve Jobs said Amazon's Kindle e-book reader will fail because Americans simply don't read. So Google had no financial incentive here. So, uh , yeah, if the eReader market dwindles down and Kobo and Amazon eventually stop making eReaders all together who is to blame ? Americans. We are our own enemy.

Last edited by bagpiper1; 03-10-2018 at 01:26 PM. Reason: fix punctuation and grammar
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:26 AM   #173
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I disagree about American anti intellectualism being enough to bring down the ebook reader as both Amazon and Rakuten Kobo are very international corporations who sell world wide. I wonder what percentage of Kindle reader sales are in the USA as Amazon does not release sales figures. So far as I am concerned there is no clear replacement product yet with the same set of characteristics including the ability to read in such a wide range of conditions with minimal eye strain and until there is I do not expect the ebook reader or e-ink display to vanish.

If anti intellectualism was as bad as you claim then liberal arts colleges and departments would be gone, along with libraries in many towns and cities.

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No doubt Capitalism played the major role in this but you cannot overlook possible underlying supporting cultural factors. Americans are anti-intellectual and anti-intellectual video culture has overtaken print culture since at least the advent of the T.V. That is the reason eReaders are a dwindling niche market (Kobo Aura One and the Oasis are good side affects of this trend , though, for us literati we get better ereaders but less choice). I bet more people have iPads and other tablets than eReaders and that is not because Tablets are equally good at reading but because most people want the tablets for other more anti-intellectual features while reading books is more of a less important afterthought function to them.

Now don't get me wrong I am not attacking Americans here. I am American, from New York, but America is anti-intellectual like the Roman empire rather than intellectual like the ancient Greeks. This is undeniable, for instance, see books like : The Age of American Unreason by Susan Jacoby and Anti-intellectualism in American Life by Richard Hofstadter etc...

You know what ? Librarians, scholars and other people trying to keep their position in the capitalist system in relation to books or the gate keepers of knowledge may have been over ruled by Google if they bribed the court or politicians or whatnot to have the court rule on their side. Why did not capitalism function in this desired way ? As Steve Jobs said Amazon's Kindle e-book reader will fail because Americans simply don't read. So Google had no financial incentive here. So, uh , yeah, if the eReader market dwindles down and Kobo and Amazon eventually stop making eReaders all together who is to blame ? Americans. We are our own enemy.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:40 AM   #174
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I disagree about American anti intellectualism being enough to bring down the ebook reader as both Amazon and Rakuten Kobo are very international corporations who sell world wide. I wonder what percentage of Kindle reader sales are in the USA as Amazon does not release sales figures.
I would wager that the bulk of Kindle sales is in the US.

But I do agree with your point. Kobo is a Canadian company owned by a Japanese company. Then there's all the smaller e-reader manufacturers that aren't US based and don't sell here.

If e-readers were banned in the US, it would be bad news for Amazon, but the devices would continue on without much change, I think.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:02 PM   #175
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Of interest to this thread..
https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...opy-me/557420/

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A Google spokesperson confirmed that Google Books stands ready. Its software is already set up so that on January 1 of each year, the material from 95 years that’s currently digitized but only available for searching suddenly switches to full text.
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