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Old 02-02-2018, 04:05 PM   #16
JSWolf
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Soft hyphens do with with KF8. I've never tried with Mobi. KFX doesn't need soft hyphens. The problem is going to be if the eBook is going to be sold on Amazon, you don't want soft hyphens.

However, if this is a Kindle eBook, you can use the KFX plugin to convert to KFX and then show the client the eBook in KFX with hyphens. But, the client has to have a PW2 or later for KFX support.

So before we keep this thread going, you'll have to tell us what format and what software and/or device.

Last edited by JSWolf; 02-02-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:27 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Soft hyphens do with with KF8. I've never tried with Mobi. KFX doesn't need soft hyphens. The problem is going to be if the eBook is going to be sold on Amazon, you don't want soft hyphens.

However, if this is a Kindle eBook, you can use the KFX plugin to convert to KFX and then show the client the eBook in KFX with hyphens. But, the client has to have a PW2 or later for KFX support.

So before we keep this thread going, you'll have to tell us what format and what software and/or device.
Jon:

And how, pray tell, would someone do that? Make a KF8 "only" WITH hyphens, the MOBI without, and etc.? I mean, I suppose some deranged person could do that, but it's a huge waste of time, IF the book is going to be sold.

As the OP mentions a "client," presumably, nobody is paying him or her to make a book for their own perusal.

I'm sticking with what I said--it's a client education issue, as are 90% of the crap that we deal with and questions we answer, daily. I've blown nearly two bloody hours today trying to explain to a client about HTML lists, and how they aren't Word lists, and if you want PERFECT line-wrapping, well, you're stuck with 1.1.1., not 1.A.2), etc.

If we could charge for "explaining time," we could ALL bloody afford to retire. Hell, of all the bookmakers I interview, they all want to MAKE books, but deal with this stuff? Oh, no. Have to explain to a client? Ixnay.

Sometimes--nay, oftentimes--you are helping the client more by telling them NO, and explaining why not, rather than catering to them merely to get it over with.

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Old 02-04-2018, 09:18 AM   #18
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In Microsoft Edge and RMSDK (ADE) you cannot search. I've tested this with RMDSK on the H2O, ADE 2.0.1, and MS Edge.

But, if you are reading ePub with ADE 2.0.1 or later, you get hyphenation.
He just wants auto-hyphenisation. He's compared the version I sent on Kindle Previewer to other books by top authors which he has on his Kindle. He says the lines are gappier. solved some of these problems with his em rules.

I've discovered this Enhanced Typesetting now but Previewer says my output file doesn't have it. Is this just a way of Amazon getting rid of custom CSS and formatting to get rid of all these problems?
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by johnamy View Post
I've discovered this Enhanced Typesetting now but Previewer says my output file doesn't have it. Is this just a way of Amazon getting rid of custom CSS and formatting to get rid of all these problems?
As I posted previously hyphenation in Kindle books sold by Amazon is done automatically as part of the Enhanced Typesetting feature. If the Kindle Previewer shows that ET is not supported by your book then there is something in the content or formatting of the book that is blocking conversion to KFX format and therefore ET.

Unfortunately Amazon doesn't provide much help in solving this sort of problem. The Kindle Publishing Guidelines provides little help and only mentions use of SVG as something that will block ET. I have seen references to a "Formatting Guide for Enhanced Typesetting", which is apparently in the works, but not yet available as far as I know.

The most recent versions of the Kindle Previewer produce error messages and guidance on how to correct them for things that prevent KFX conversion, but this information isn't normally displayed. Perhaps someone here knows a trick to enable that feature.

One way to diagnose this is using the KFX Output plugin for calibre. It captures errors and guidance generated by the Previewer as part of the job log when a conversion to KFX is performed.

Last edited by jhowell; 02-04-2018 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:28 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by johnamy View Post
He just wants auto-hyphenisation. He's compared the version I sent on Kindle Previewer to other books by top authors which he has on his Kindle. He says the lines are gappier. solved some of these problems with his em rules.

I've discovered this Enhanced Typesetting now but Previewer says my output file doesn't have it. Is this just a way of Amazon getting rid of custom CSS and formatting to get rid of all these problems?
"em rules?" You probably managed to disable Enhanced Typesetting with that bit of tweaking. Moreover, they probably won't do squat, once the book runs through the KDP.

It is most certainly not Amazon getting rid of custom CSS and formatting; we do hundreds of books every month with highly customized CSS and formatting, and the only thing we still run into is the use of tables disabling ET. That's the only time that ET is not enabled for our books.

Sorry to be blunt, but are you being paid for this work?

Unless it's the tables (would have to be longer than 60 rows, I believe it is now, and I don't remember how many columns--jhowell will remember) that are disabling your ET--in which case, that's what you tell him--you are faced with the unhappy prospect of telling him that you don't know WHY your ET is not being enabled. That's what is stopping the hyphenation that he wants to see.

You should also have advised him that rivers are typical--it's how justification is DONE on older Kindles and any Kindle that can't use ET. It never ceases to boggle me how many people don't realize that justification doesn't just magically "work," people who don't know what rivers are, etc. But that's what you tell him. That, or you find someone with more experience, and pay them to fix your book. I'm sorry, but nobody here is going to be able to diagnose the reasons for your ET disabling remotely.

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Old 02-04-2018, 03:33 PM   #21
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I've found this sometimes works...

Convert from ePub using Kindlegen. Then use the current Kindle Previewer to have a look. You will know if it can be converted for KFX for enhanced typesetting or not. If not, others may be able to help you fix what's preventing the conversion.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I've found this sometimes works...

Convert from ePub using Kindlegen. Then use the current Kindle Previewer to have a look. You will know if it can be converted for KFX for enhanced typesetting or not. If not, others may be able to help you fix what's preventing the conversion.
Jon:

That's what he's doing. He said that KP3 is telling him that ET is NOT enabled. He has a problem, someplace, in his markup. Unless it's (very large) tables, it will take a lot of bracket navigation to figure out what it is.

If it is tables, then tell the client that they have to live with it, or give up the tables. I do a LOT to mollify my clients, to make them happy--but I won't turn water into wine, or whine, for that matter. You can only do so much. If the book is properly coded, sans error, (without the aforementioned big tables) ET should be enabled.

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Old 02-04-2018, 05:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Unless it's the tables (would have to be longer than 60 rows, I believe it is now, and I don't remember how many columns--jhowell will remember) that are disabling your ET--in which case, that's what you tell him--you are faced with the unhappy prospect of telling him that you don't know WHY your ET is not being enabled. That's what is stopping the hyphenation that he wants to see.
There are several table features that can prevent ET. For example having more than 65 rows or 8 columns, tables nested within other tables, and tables with negative margins or padding.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:16 PM   #24
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Jon:

That's what he's doing. He said that KP3 is telling him that ET is NOT enabled. He has a problem, someplace, in his markup. Unless it's (very large) tables, it will take a lot of bracket navigation to figure out what it is.
But if the OP is using the ePub to view with Kindle Previewer, it could be the problem. I've seen this before with some older Kindle Previewer. But converting using Kindlegen did fix the problem. I cannot speak for the newest Kindle Previewer as I've not used it.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:17 PM   #25
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There are several table features that can prevent ET. For example having more than 65 rows or 8 columns, tables nested within other tables, and tables with negative margins or padding.
Thanks! See, I knew you'd know. EIGHT columns. I keep having to say that to myself. I can't remember, for some reason, but strewth, when's the last time we tried to do an 8-column table, ANYWAY? Our ROT (rule of thumb) is 3-4 columns, max--4 if the content is narrow. I have run into the 65-row limit, though.

And I WISH we could do nested tables. It would fix a lot of things that really can't be done other ways. (sigh).

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Old 02-06-2018, 07:31 PM   #26
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The most recent versions of the Kindle Previewer produce error messages and guidance on how to correct them for things that prevent KFX conversion, but this information isn't normally displayed. Perhaps someone here knows a trick to enable that feature.

One way to diagnose this is using the KFX Output plugin for calibre. It captures errors and guidance generated by the Previewer as part of the job log when a conversion to KFX is performed.
Is it possible these guidances and error messages are being sent to stdout and/or stderr?

If so, it might be easy to capture them by starting kindle previewer from the command line with stdout and stderr redirected to file names of your choosing.
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:35 AM   #27
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Is it possible these guidances and error messages are being sent to stdout and/or stderr?
It is not so easy. The main Previewer process spawns another process to perform conversion. That process spawns several other processes to perform subtasks. The error logs and guidance are written to files in the TEMP directory by these processes and deleted by the main conversion process before it exits.

I figured out how to capture these files and extract the useful information from them and have included that functionality in the KFX Output plugin for calibre.
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Old 04-04-2018, 05:26 PM   #28
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If the OP is reading ePub, then this is not a good idea at all. In most ePub renderers, this won't work properly.

If the OP is reading an eBook on a Kindle in KF8, then yes, it is a good idea as it does work properly.

Oh and don't apply the hyphens to an ePub. Apply the hyphens to the KF8.
How to add it to KF8? That's compiled, no?
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:33 AM   #29
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How to add it to KF8? That's compiled, no?
Damian:

There is NO reason to do so. Enhanced Typesetting will add the hyphens for you.

Are you having an issue, that ET doesn't address?

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Old 04-06-2018, 05:22 AM   #30
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Damian:

There is NO reason to do so. Enhanced Typesetting will add the hyphens for you.

Are you having an issue, that ET doesn't address?

Hitch
I'm not sure what the issue is. Most pages are fine when it can make it even without hyphenating.

But often it looks like this(see attachment) when hyphens are needed..gets rather annoying sometimes...takes me out of my reading reverie.

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