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Old 06-10-2024, 03:28 PM   #1
JSWolf
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How's this for one heck of a messy chapter header?

I think this is a Vellum made messterpiece. It's one heck of a mess of code. This is why Vellum needs to go away forever.

Code:
  <div id="chapter-37" class="element-bodymatter" role="doc-chapter" epub:type="chapter">
    <div class="heading heading-container-single heading-size-full heading-format-full heading-without-image">
      <div class="heading-contents">
        <div class="title-subtitle-block">
          <div class="element-number-block">
            <div class="element-number case-upper">THIRTY-SEVEN</div>
          </div>
          <div class="title-block">
            <h1 class="element-title case-upper">DANNER</h1>
          </div>
          <h2 class="element-subtitle case-upper">FEBRUARY 1943</h2>
        </div>
      </div>
    </div>
    <div class="text" id="chapter-37-text">
      <div class="alignment-block">
        <div class="text-block">
        <p class="alignment-block-content alignment-block-content-center">Dachau, Germany</p>
      </div>
      </div>
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Old 06-10-2024, 04:10 PM   #2
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How does this affect those who do not spend their reading time looking at the code? Does it make the ebook unreadable for them? Would they notice any difference if you cleaned up and minimalized the code?
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Old 06-10-2024, 04:20 PM   #3
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Yea, I agree with JSWolf. It's excessive. Reminds me of this little beauty (see image)

@DNSB who cares. It's a little post about excessive code. Roll with it. Maybe you don't feel the need to look at stuff like this and immediately want to clean it up, others like me get caught up in some OCD thing and dive right in. I find it somewhat cathartic.


Attachment 195405
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Old 06-10-2024, 04:41 PM   #4
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@DNSB, in this case (please, don't repeat this...), I agree with JSWolf. It's something I see a lot in the books (I don't read the code but I like to clean it and set it as I like), and I simplify inmediately.
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Old 06-10-2024, 07:46 PM   #5
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That is inevitable. HTML was designed for man pages, not for books, so it has no concept of a heading.
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Old 06-11-2024, 04:13 PM   #6
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Heh. As long as it looks the way I want on my ereader, I don't care how messy the code is. I have far too many books to bother with simplifying the code just for simplicity's sake; if I did that, I would have no time to read at all. I just fix anything that wouldn't look the way I want, and leave the rest alone. Too many books and not enough time. YMMV, of course.
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Old 06-11-2024, 05:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
How does this affect those who do not spend their reading time looking at the code? Does it make the ebook unreadable for them? Would they notice any difference if you cleaned up and minimalized the code?
There are a number of us on MR who do dive into the eBook code, So those of us who do would see that mess.
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Old 06-11-2024, 05:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmat89 View Post
That is inevitable. HTML was designed for man pages, not for books, so it has no concept of a heading.
For a simple one line chapter header, I use <h2> and I have <h2> styled as I want. I do make changes if it's appropriate for the eBook.
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Old 06-11-2024, 05:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan View Post
@DNSB, in this case (please, don't repeat this...), I agree with JSWolf. It's something I see a lot in the books (I don't read the code but I like to clean it and set it as I like), and I simplify inmediately.
I would clean up that mess of divs as well and be left with just three lines for the chapter headers formatted to what I like.
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Old 06-12-2024, 12:50 AM   #10
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Personally, I would open the book in Sigil and run my collection of saved searches and plugins—the majority of my saved searches are Vellum specific and yes, I would end up with something like:

Code:
<body>
  <div role="doc-chapter" epub:type="chapter">
         <h2 class="chapnum">DANNER</h1>

         <p class="trifecta">FEBRUARY 1943</p>

        <p class="center2">Dachau, Germany</p>
...
...
  </div>
<body>
Please note I left the first div with the role: and epub:type as I prefer to see them. And this is before I run AccessAide on the epub.

If Jon whinged about InDesign, Scrivener, Jutoh, etc. as often as he whinges about Vellum, it might be more palatable. Instead, he endlessly grumbles about Vellum. I used a quick Google search "jswolf vellum site:mobileread.com" and it comes up with a <expletive deleted> larger number of hits than a similar search for InDesign.


I have to agree that a Vellum produced ebook is not clean and simple code. OTOH, I believe that those of us who look at the code are a very small minority and the overwhelming majority will simply enjoy reading the book. On the gripping hand, Vellum has remained very consistent over several versions making the cleanup task very automatable so a task that once took me 10-15 minutes now takes about 2-3 minutes.
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Old 06-13-2024, 11:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmat89 View Post
That is inevitable. HTML was designed for man pages, not for books, so it has no concept of a heading.
I'm sure neither of those statements are really true.
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Old 06-13-2024, 11:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
P
If Jon whinged about InDesign, Scrivener, Jutoh, etc. as often as he whinges about Vellum, it might be more palatable. Instead, he endlessly grumbles about Vellum. I used a quick Google search "jswolf vellum site:mobileread.com" and it comes up with a <expletive deleted> larger number of hits than a similar search for InDesign.
InDesign is far worse than Vellum being a rented program partially designed before Adobe even bought Aldus and it designed for paper print. Kludged for ebooks and especially Kludged for reflowable content. Far harder to clean up.
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Old 06-13-2024, 05:05 PM   #13
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Most automated document creation/conversion programs create very ugly code when you look under the covers.

One job I'm looking at taking on for the next couple of weeks is an author whose book rights reverted but the publisher supplied 4 of the books as PDF and 3 as fixed layout ePubs straight from InDesign. What they want is to have them in Word/LO Writer format so the books can be edited and republished. Thankfully, they understand the limitations of what I am willing to do for the amount they can afford to offer.
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