06-15-2020, 06:22 PM | #31 |
Bibliophagist
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06-15-2020, 06:27 PM | #32 |
Grand Sorcerer
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06-15-2020, 06:42 PM | #33 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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I wish the Kobo stock setting had more choices. The patches are fantastic. In the end, it is good to have competition and choices. |
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06-15-2020, 08:02 PM | #34 |
Wizard
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06-15-2020, 08:07 PM | #35 | |
Readaholic
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Apache |
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06-15-2020, 09:03 PM | #36 | |
Wizard
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Yes it has a lot of firmware problems but not anything that really matters to me and when you get right down to it the purpose of an ereader is reading and it does that superbly. The perfect ereader would be a Nook Glowlight 3 that could access my Kindle library. Barry |
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06-15-2020, 09:12 PM | #37 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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None endured. The survivors are the ones who control their own fate with more than checks to China or India. Who create tbeir own IP and are committed to more than making a quick buck. The rest have never amounted to much because what tbey could buy was available to all. B&N disbanded their tech staff years ago so until I see Daunt hiring new designers and coders I'll be skeptical Nook can be any more than it is today. He may say he will invest but I doubt anything he can afford will change anything. We'll see soon enough. Last edited by fjtorres; 06-15-2020 at 09:19 PM. |
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06-15-2020, 09:34 PM | #38 |
eReader Wrangler
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What, exactly, do you think is more "generic" about Nooks than other eReaders? My view is the opposite. Nooks have page turn buttons on both sides of the bezel, and the best warm color screens I've seen. (And LEDs at the top of the screen instead of the bottom, which may not mean much, except it's definitely not "generic.")
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06-15-2020, 09:43 PM | #39 |
eReader Wrangler
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B&N doesn't have to depend on current revenue to recover, they're now owned by a hedge fund (Elliot Management) with deep pockets. So it comes down to whether or not Elliot Management thinks it's worth investing in B&N. So far they seem to want to rebuild the brand, not break it up to sell the pieces. So, for now, it appears we won't lose B&N or Nook, at least not in the short term. For me that's good news. I don't want to lose one of the last B&M book stores and I like more (not less) eBook competition. We'll see how it plays out.
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06-15-2020, 10:14 PM | #40 | |
Gentleman and scholar
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Are you implying that the the Nook is a rebranded Hanlin, Netronix or Boox? You've implied it three times based on nothing that I can see. The current batch of Nooks (the Glowlight 3 and the 7.8" Glowlight Plus have a different design from anything on the market. Your repeated insinuation that these are just some rebranded Chinese readers makes me think you have no clue what you are talking about. As for how far back I go, I worked at B&N when the first Nook rolled out and my first reader was the Nook ST with Glowlight. Nook has always had superior hardware design to their competitors. |
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06-15-2020, 11:55 PM | #41 | |
Wizard
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Again I’m trying to stay with objective issues here. So I’m not touching things like the layout of the various readers, the size of the bezels, if they have buttons (exception for when the button is specifically called out as causing issues) to name a few. Yes I’m comparing different generations of devices against each other but BN opted not to release new hardware with those features. I’m even ignoring the larger screens offered by Kobo because size of the screen is a subjective quality. The other features mentioned have largely become standard now. I’ll give that Nook were the first major brand to have the light at all. And that early on they outpaced Amazon or at least kept up. Kobo was outdistanced at this time with their clunkier design. But Nook has wavered and fallen behind at points. The glowlight 3 might be better hardware though from memory most if not all your praise of the hardware would fall into the subjective category. |
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06-16-2020, 02:16 AM | #42 | |
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The first waterproof Kindle came out in Oct, 2017 (significant lag) and the first "warm light" Kindle came out in May, 2019 (also a significant lag). And these were like the Voyage, expensive readers. Meanwhile the first "warm light Nook came out in November 2017. Kobo's H2O came out in October, 2014 (a big jump over everyone else, like the 300 dpi screen jump by the Voyage). But there's still no lower-end, water resistant Kobo. And the water resistant PW4 just came out in March, 2019, nearly a four year lag behind the Nook Glowlight Plus. But if you want to talk about feature lag... compare the PocketBook HD3 to all others. It's water resistant, has a 300 dpi (warm light) screen. Has page turn buttons (the touch screen can be disabled). Can borrow or buy directly from any ePub store or library (via on-device Adobe ADE and the ability to download books from ASCM files or by using it's built-in browser — this includes Kobo, Google Books and any bookstore besides Nook). Can play MP3s, can read books to you (TTS). Has a dual-core CPU, 16 GBs of storage standard. Has games (Klondike, Chess, Sudku), can receive books via Send to PocketBook, supports DropBox integration, and includes 5 GBs of cloud storage on PocketBook's website (this enables syncing across devices). And it weighs ten grams less than Kobo Clara or Tolino Shine 3. My point? All eReaders improve when the underlying technology improves. One company emphasizes one feature over another, while another company will do the opposite. Nook development does not "significantly lag" when compared to the others (I think they have the best "warm light" screens made) and page turn buttons on both sides of the bezel. Nook just comes out with fewer devices. But when their new device does get released it incorporates the newest component developments. |
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06-16-2020, 09:42 AM | #43 | |
Wizard
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You start by saying there was no lag, then demonstrate there was lag, and qualify it by using price point differences. BN had no premium reader, thus the hardware specs for their premium reader are does not exist. Which means their hardware offerings were behind those of their competitors of Kobo and Amazon. Since we weren't comparing it on a device to device offering, but hardware overall. |
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06-16-2020, 10:49 AM | #44 | |
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But something like that. Are you familiar with how companies get their gizmos to sell? I'll try to simplify, just in case: At the top of the involvement spectrum you have inhouse development/outsourced manufacturing. Sony and MS are doing this for their new consoles. MS has a large team of engineers and coders that has been working with partners to design the critical components since 2016. They defined the features and capabilities of the components, the power of the cooling fan, the path of airflow, everything. Four years designing, testing, revising. And half an hour designing the case. They then pass the designs to their manufacturing partners in Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, China, etc. It's their product all the way. They control it. A notch below this, is the ODM market: involvement here runs different levels but as a rule the marketing guys list the features and traits they want, the money guys specify a per unit pricing range, and the tech guys on both sides iterate an exclusive design. The inhouse guys evaluate how the features will be implemented and what tradeoffs are needed, what pitfalls might come. Like, if weight matters, just how thick can the plastic be vs the size and weight of the battery. Or if a charger is included, how big, fast, and expensive can it be. Your techies make sure you get a design that is competitive and runs your software well. This looks to be where Kobo lives. It's their software and it's their name on the box and they (and Netronix, their ODM) consistently put out solid competitive products. Thing is, not all ODM partners are equally good and not all clients get the same attention. Big clients buying lots of units, by the million, get a lot of say; outfits buying a single small lot get less. Near the bottom, there are the OEM deals. The client there gets an existing design and *might* get different color plastic plus the silk-screened logo. If you stop by the "electronics" section of a pharmacy you might find alarm clocks, DVD players, maybe tablets with brands like Emerson, Craig, Sonic, or something else that look suspiciously alike. Take them apart and you'll find the same design housed in different plastic. Years ago, a british outfit called Interead proudly announced the Cool-er reader. Cheap for the time and in a rainbow of colors. They latter anounced they'd sold 25,000. A big achievement for the time, when Sony sold maybe 100,000 a year. https://gizmodo.com/cool-er-ebook-reader-review-5271551 A couple months later, they were gone. Total life from intro to bankruptcy, one year. Plastic aside, that design was all over in 2008/2009 under a half dozen names, all with the exact same features. They company brought nothing to the table than anybody else. And as the market moved on past the first Kindle, customers moved on. At the lowest level, there are the co-branding deals like when B&N signed up to sell a million Samsung Android tablets with the Nook reader app preinstalled. (No need to revisit how "well" that worked out, right?) So, where does Nook stand? With all tech stuff outsourced they're most likely OEMing a pre-existent design. Every years there's a couple dozen asian designs that never make it west so theirs no quick way of telling, if they're rebadging a design or not. But since they're not exactly cutting edge hardware the odds of it being a custom job like the first Nooks is very low. This doesn't mean the hadware is bad. But when you look at Nook financials (under $100M a year for both hardware and books) it's clear the hardware (tablet and readers running $120-180) aren't moving even Cool-er volumes, in a mjch bigger market. Their total hardware sales run around $40-45M. For three separate designs, three contracts, three production runs. How's that look? 30-40,000 units? Maybe 10,000 each? Around $10M each contract? $20M. For that an ODM that is decent enough money but not a contract you bend over backwards for. If B&N gets lucky and sign up good OEMs they may not miss the tech staff they fired. But they might also get poor quality control, preinstalled malware, exploding power supplies. Control is vital to protecting your brand and customer base. Nook hasn't and they now have a big hole to dig out of. And I don't think relying on getting lucky with low five figure deals is something you can rely on. Its not just fraders that Nook barely registers with. If tbey were standalone, they'd be bafely above kickstarter levels for OEM/ODMs. And I wouldn't be counting on their new owners having "deep pockets" being of much help. Ask Kobo home much support they get from Rakuten's "deep pockets". Considering how little previous management invested in Nook, saying they'll do more is a long way from "a lot". The investors might also see the whole deal differently today than a year ago. Their top priority has to be stemming the B&M bleeding and rebuilding the minimum wage staffs they fired. Because their strategy has always been pump and dump. Rework B&N enough to report a small profit and IPO it and Watersones as a combo. And in that combo,Nook is an even worse fit than with B&N alone. Odds are still with Nook staying a zombie for a couple years before moving it or closing it. It's not as if $50m a year of ebooks is going to missed much. Remember "too big to fail"? There's also "too small to suvive". Last edited by fjtorres; 06-16-2020 at 10:59 AM. |
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06-16-2020, 01:25 PM | #45 |
eReader Wrangler
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If you're comparing the Voyage's 300 dpi screen against everybody else, everybody had "significant" lag. Not that significant, though. To single out Nook here is just absurd. Of course, if you're talking about water resistance or warm light, Amazon had significant lag at any price point. Again, there are fewer Nook models made. When they were released, they came out with the newer technology. If you single out Nook, you have to show that they lagged against everyone, not just against Kindles in one category.
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