Seriously thoughtful The Covid Vaccination Poll

[haertig]

Originally Posted by meeera

The analogy was that if you had used a racist word...

OK. So the analogy starts out with your presupposition that I used a racist word to start with.

But that is not the case here. We presuppose nothing - we have not agreed that "hysterical" is sexist before beginning discussion. But that's what your above explanation of the analogy says.

You are attempting to convince me that the word is sexist. Presupposing it is sexist from the beginning renders the whole convincing thing moot.

I am not being deliberately obtuse. I am methodically responding to your points with logic, one after the other. You apparently do not like that I don't immediately jump on board with everything you proclaim. That does not make me obtuse. But I can see how it might frustrate you.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by meeera

Well, I certainly couldn't have asked any more politely.

Yes, you were very polite. But you could have politely asked me to give you $10,000, and I wouldn't have done that either.

Would more evidence have the potential to change your mind?

Yes, definitely! I would love to see some evidence. Thus far, you really haven't provided much. I do understand how you feel about the word. But that does not prove it is sexist in any way. You have provided some interesting information on word roots. And I acknowledged that. But what you did was take that word root and point out what it shares with other words, like "hysterectomy", which points toward a womb, which implies a woman. Then you have to make the leap that anything that implies a woman is sexist. I'm sorry, but while interesting, that is not enough to even indict the word, let alone convict it.

I am by no means alone on this one.

Nor am I. What I am bothered by, is being accused, implied, or whatever you want to call it - of being sexist. Because I used a common word in a common context in an innocent way. A context so common and innocent that it appears in multiple dictionary examples illustrating how to use the word.

Yet, you are offended by that. Rather than roll over and grovel at your feet and agree to cancel the word "hysterical" from the English language, I asked you to show me how the word is sexist. There is nothing unreasonable about that request. I even said to quote my words and expand and embellish them using whatever additional words you wanted to add, to create an illustration of how the word is sexist. Not many people would be willing to open themselves up to the abuse that could lead to, but I was. Time will tell if I ever see a response to that.

Tell me, if I had said, "I watched the movie The Naked Gun last night. It was hysterical!" Would that have offended you? If not, why not?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

Nor am I. What I am bothered by, is being accused, implied, or whatever you want to call it - of being sexist. Because I used a common word in a common context in an innocent way. A context so common and innocent that it appears in multiple dictionary examples illustrating how to use the word.

Yet, you are offended by that. Rather than roll over and grovel at your feet and agree to cancel the word "hysterical" from the English language

The above is a histrionic response. I have repeatedly acknowledged that, although the knowledge that this word is sexist is fairly widespread* (it's pretty much universally known in my circles, for example), you were not personally aware of that. I've not requested money or grovelling or abasement or an apology. I've politely asked that you consider alternatives going forward (and provided some); something I obviously have no power to demand or require. Given your response here, I suspect your answer is a flat "no", but it's possible someone else has learned something, so *shrug*. Moving on.

(I'll certainly be pretty bloody suspicious the next time someone yells "well if you had asked POLITELY instead of being so ANGRY I might have listened to what you had to say!")
---

* I did give you plenty of useful keywords with which you could have searched for yourself. You could start here, for example, not an especially unknown website, if you wanted to know more (though the last section is pretty nonsensical and needs work) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria

https://browse.tedxvienna.at/blog/20...d-here-is-why/

https://www.vwt.org.au/why-hysteria-is-a-loaded-word/

[haertig]

Did you notice that your first link, the one to the Wiki article, is specifically talking about "female hysteria" in medical diagnosis. The very first word in the article is "Female". And it's even in bold type. That is called a "qualifier" for the word that follows.

In your second link, the one at tedxvienna, did you notice that the paragraph about hysteria is talking about use of the word in describing a female. Their words were "Today people mainly use it to describe women, who cannot control themselves or are too emotional". Was I using the word to "describe women"? No. I was talking about media headlines.

In your third link, they mention things like "calling a woman hysterical", "labeling her hysterical", etc. In every case, there is a qualifier that puts things in the perspective of a negative comment directed specifically at someone. In my case, I said "hysterical media". That is not a qualifier per se, but "media" is a noun and "hysterical" is an adjective. The adjective is describing the noun. There is no way anyone could have reasonably interpreted this to mean that I was talking about women.

You need that qualifier to throw things into a sexist context. As a matter of fact, I said that exact thing earlier. Maybe you missed it (or ignored it). In either case, I will requote my words so that you can re-read them:

It is not the slightest bit sexist in the context that I have used it in, although intentionally using it in certain other contexts could be sexist. e.g., "That stupid hysterical woman" would definitely be sexist. "Hysterical media" is not sexist. But you can do these things - make something offensive via context - with ANY word. It is not the word that is offensive, it is the context you are using it in.

Now that you've re-read my words, tell me exactly where I am out of sync with ANY of the links you provided.

Oh, and by the way, your own quote below is a prime example of how context means everything:

The above is a histrionic response.

By directing that specifically at me, you are putting it into a context where some might consider it offensive, even though "histrionic" is a perfectly fine word. Don't worry, I am not personally offended in the slightest. I am just pointing out that the context in which you are using it could be considered offensive by some, those with a chip on their shoulder or an ax to grind, because you are using it to put down another, to belittle them. My guess is that you might try to waffle on this, and claim that it was not intended to belittle, it was just a statement of fact. Touché! That's exactly what I'm saying about my use of "hysterical media".

although the knowledge that this word is sexist is fairly widespread* (it's pretty much universally known in my circles, for example), you were not personally aware of that

I have no knowledge of what is discussed in your circles in Australia. That is on the opposite side of the planet from me. I kind of suspect we wouldn't be traveling in the same circles even if we managed to live on the same continent. Your comment is pretty irrelevant.

You did not answer my earlier question:

Tell me, if I had said, "I watched the movie The Naked Gun last night. It was hysterical!" Would that have offended you? If not, why not?

I would truly like to hear your answer to that.

[cromag]

And, getting back to the original thread, my wife got her second shot Friday, my son will get his second shot Monday, my daughter got her first shot on Saturday, and I will get my second shot on Friday.

We seem to be a Moderna family.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by cromag

And, getting back to the original thread, my wife got her second shot Friday, my son will get his second shot Monday, my daughter got her first shot on Saturday, and I will get my second shot on Friday.

We seem to be a Moderna family.

My sibs who are behind me in the process are all Pfizer, making me the outlier with Moderna.

I’m going to close this thread and will post a new poll shortly, to reflect people’s updated status. Please don’t carry the off-topic discussions forward.