Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Kindle Formats

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-30-2020, 04:46 PM   #1
Oliva
Junior Member
Oliva began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 9
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Spain
Device: none
Uploading a dual mobi format

Hello,

Somewhere on this forum I read that if you upload to KDP a KPF file made with Kindle Create or with Kindle Previewer 3, the customers who have older KF8 devices (which are not enhanced-typesetting enabled) will receive just the old KF7 version and not the better KF8 version.

So the workaround would be to instead upload an EPUB, formatted for kf8 and kf7, and tested for enhanced typesetting compatibility.

My question is: would that work also if I upload a mobi instead, made with Kindlegen?

So the workflow would be:
1 making an epub in Sigil, with media queries for kf8 and kf7
2 testing this epub in Kindle Previewer to see if it enables Enhanced typesetting (but not converting it to kpf)
3 converting the epub from step 1 to a mobi with kindlegen using the command line
4 uploading that mobi to KDP
5 ideally, customers would receive a KF7, a KF8 or a KFX, depending on their device.

Would this work? Thank you.
Oliva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 05:10 PM   #2
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,699
Karma: 36000001
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliva View Post
Somewhere on this forum I read that if you upload to KDP a KPF file made with Kindle Create or with Kindle Previewer 3, the customers who have older KF8 devices (which are not enhanced-typesetting enabled) will receive just the old KF7 version and not the better KF8 version.
I have tested this and it is true for KPF files produced using Kindle Create.

It might also be true for KPF files produced using the Kindle Previewer, but as far as I know no one has tried it. (If anyone has actually published a book using a Kindle Previewer KPF file please chime in with the ASIN and we should be able to resolve the question.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliva View Post
My question is: would that work also if I upload a mobi instead, made with Kindlegen?
Yes. As long as you use the default command line options for kindlegen, especially avoiding the "-dont_append_source" option. (The included source file is needed to produce KFX - Enhanced Typesetting.)

Kindlegen is also built into the Kindle Previewer and you can export a MOBI file produced by kindlegen using the same menu choice that exports KPF. Just change the file type to MOBI in the dialog box.
jhowell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 05:24 PM   #3
Oliva
Junior Member
Oliva began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 9
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Spain
Device: none
Thank you very much, jhowell. Very helpful.
Oliva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:59 AM   #4
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,964
Karma: 8888888
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
For Amazon KDP it's best to upload an epub2. They make it into old mobi, azw/kf8 and KFX with Enhanced Typesetting. This was Amazon's advice.

Unless you are making a text book or comic, it's best to work in Word or LO Writer, do a final save as docx and convert to epub2 in Calibre. Then convert epub2 to dual mobi for Smashwords only.

If you are more into layout design than writing, then you might use Sigil, InDesign (expensive), Calibre's editor etc. I can't see the point of KindleGen for anything like a novel or short story.

IMO a dual mobi has only two uses: Either to upload to Smashwords for their own Kindle downloads (also upload an epub2 as that's distributed), or to give a PD or your own text to someone with a Kindle and you don't know if it's older FW/model.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM   #5
Oliva
Junior Member
Oliva began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 9
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Spain
Device: none
Hello Quoth,
the reason i was considering uploading a mobi instead of an epub is that I cannot seem to succeed in validating the epub with epubcheck in Sigil. I always get a bunch of errors which with my very limited technical knowledge cannot understand or fix myself. I think a successful conversion to a mobi with kindlegen is a kind of verification and validation.

I use a several pieces of software for formatting ebooks. I use calibre only for some of its plugins (eg. KindleUnpack) and word processors (Atlantis, Libreoffice) only to clean up the initial text.I am also trying to integrate ebook formatting within my workflow for print. I don’t use Indesign, but free or less costly alternatives (Scribus, VivaDesigner).

Regarding the dual mobi, I’ve taken the advice of Hitch on this forum (there is so much to learn from her) and know there still are millions of KF7 devices in use, so I am trying to produce ebooks which do not look too bad on those.
Oliva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM   #6
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,964
Karma: 8888888
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliva View Post
Hello Quoth,
the reason i was considering uploading a mobi instead of an epub is that I cannot seem to succeed in validating the epub with epubcheck in Sigil. I always get a bunch of errors which with my very limited technical knowledge cannot understand or fix myself. I think a successful conversion to a mobi with kindlegen is a kind of verification and validation.
No, Kindlegen isn't decent verification and validation.

Try a simple document first with Libre Office Writer. Edit always odt, because opening an docx messes some styles etc as it always converts.

So do a 2nd Save As before quitting Writer in docx format and try that with Sigil and Calibre.

I've been doing this for years, using paragraph styles etc. You need to manually make a TOC in Writer.
1) Make sure only items for a TOC have paragraph style of Level 1 or 2. Everything else inc. Title etc is Body Text Level.
2) Create an Index with the Insert -> Index making tool, but edit so that Tabs with the dots and page numbers are deleted and it's manual.
3) Cut the Contents page(s) and paste into any plain text editor, select and copy past back.
4) Set a suitable Paragraph style.
5) In the outline window double click on each heading in turn to go to it and add a bookmark. Do NOT select a block (that's for Word style Forms), but insert a bookmark like ch1, ch2, etc. Not full names.
6) Block select each line of content and add a hyperlink, #ch1, #ch2 etc, rather than the long winded "in the document" GUI
I have keyboard shortcuts
Ctrl A = Anchor Menu to make or delete a bookmark
Shift End will select from cursor to end of line.
Ctrl K = Edit hyperlinK (Enter bookmark prefixed with # as Internet URL without the HTTPS://)

You can put the blurb, number of words and cover info in "Properties".
Have your Author name in the User Data in Tools -> Options.
Then the first time you import the docx, Calibre will use those.
Do NOT put a cover in the Book. Those are always added separately to Calibre, Amazon or Smashwords. Set "don't detect cover" in Calibre or a first image in the book will be used.

Always save an odt before Save As docx
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM   #7
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,964
Karma: 8888888
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
So make an epub2. Amazon does a good job of making every Kindle format from that.
It was the ONLY way I could get uploads for old KF7, KF8 and KFX to not have "bugs".

You only need the Dual Mobi for Kindle sales on Smashwords and you need the epub2 there also, anyway.

I found I could not use a Print version for ebook generation. I find it's simpler, when the epubp2 has been proofed to death (I copy back annotations from a Kobo to PC using Kobo Utilities in Calibre) to make the formatted version for PDF for Print.

I use a small page size with no headers or footers, all pages are "default style" and style of "insert page before" isn't set. The Register and Snap are false.
For paper, I use maybe 2 to 6 page styles:
Early front matter, no page numbers
Roman numbered pages
Contents page(s)
Numbered book pages.
End matter
I use Register True (space between lines lines up through page)
Mirror margins for a small binding offset. Warning, Danger Will Robinson! Ebooks don't really have global page margins set in the book.
Headers different left & right
Footers

It can use a font like Garamond, ebooks can't.
The images (if any) need to be higher resolution and sized for the desired paper.

Mirror Danger? MS Word in particular may produce PDFs where the left & right go out of sync. Also watch out for last line of page bug. Hit return to add an extra blank line and then BS delete, otherwise at print time / PDF, the last line may fully justify instead of left justify! MS advice. Bug for maybe over 15 years?

Proof every page on screen visually of publisher's PDF for paper.

Do not print anything on paper yourself for ebooks. Save As docx, convert in calibre for epub2 and proof on a Kobo or Lithium App.

For PDF, proofing either a full HD screen or a 10" tablet, assuming no larger than 9" x 6" paper.

If you want paper, proof the epub to death, make a PDF and order a proof copy POD, I stopped printing even partial drafts on paper about 8 years ago. Last complete home printed draft novel maybe 1996.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:42 PM   #8
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,964
Karma: 8888888
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
Or pay Hitch!
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM   #9
Oliva
Junior Member
Oliva began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 9
Karma: 10
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Spain
Device: none
Quoth, why do you think that KindleGen is not a good validation tool to produce a mobi? The epubs I made in Jutoh are without errors, but when I check it with epubcheck in Sigil they tend to be full of warnings. Maybe it’s Sigil’s bugs, who knows?

Of course I use styles religiously for hierarchical headings and for absolutely everything else. But I found that using Libreoffice for style formatting is ... painful. I have sometimes spent a whole day manually removing direct ad hoc formatting from some complex and long texts, before i found Atlantis word processor, Jutoh and Sigil. Same with bookmarks, toc creation, links ... There are much easier softwares that automate a lot of these tedious manual tasks, find errors, optimize the output for different destinations and much more.

Sure, simple novels are easy enough to do in a word processor. But any complex non-fiction, I don't think so. Same with font embedding and subsetting, any decorative elements, svg images, complex typography ... But maybe I'm just over-complicating.

For print, I agree, you cannot use print to make an ebook. But I found, vice versa it’s easier: i.e. if you already have a very clean ebook, it’s easy to use that to then modify or add print-specific elements in a desktop publishing software like Scribus or VivaDesigner (or InDesign). Print is its own, completely different, animal.

I’m sure with your experience you have a very efficient and streamlined workflow. I am still flailing around to find out what works for me.
Oliva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:34 AM   #10
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,964
Karma: 8888888
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
" have sometimes spent a whole day manually removing direct ad hoc formatting from some complex and long texts"
Only use paragraph styles. The only manual direct formatting I use is Italic for "telepathic dialogue". Everything else is named styles.

Complex non-fiction might use LaTex. Mostly it's useless as an ebook, as are large format books with photos. A PDF isn't an ebook. An ebook needs to flow for any size screen. Complex non-fiction, not on paper, needs to pretend to be paper and compatible with a 10" colour tablet as a PDF. Amazon & epub3 "fixed layouts" are really a nonsense.


This is exactly what I was saying.
"I agree, you cannot use print to make an ebook. But I found, vice versa it’s easier: i.e. if you already have a very clean ebook, it’s easy to use that to then modify or add print-specific elements in a desktop publishing software"
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dual display format Kindle file PaulFraser Kindle Formats 4 06-28-2020 02:56 PM
Dual Mobi. How Compatible? Quoth Kindle Formats 29 07-06-2019 04:42 PM
Dual format Mobi not keeping correct title oblox Conversion 3 08-21-2015 01:18 PM
Thoughts on how to format a dual-language book for learners? MacEachaidh ePub 35 03-19-2014 03:37 AM
Recommended settings to convert dual-column PDF to useable MOBI format Cephas Atheos Conversion 7 09-18-2012 07:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:28 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.