Christopher Tolkien

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Watching the three Hobbit movies and still being willing to give the books a try is an amazing feat. I loved the Lord of the Rings movies and am a Peter Jackson fan in general (since he did Brain Dead/DeadAlive). Also, the Hobbit is my favorite book.

But those Hobbit movies were awful. I imagine it was the studio wanting another trilogy, but there is too much padding and simple scenes from the book were turned into extended action sequences.

I tended to view The Hobbit movies kind of like the James Bond movies, i.e. the books and movies are very different entities. From that stand point, I rather liked the Hobbit movies. With the LOTR movies, changes to the books increased from movie to movie. Fellowship of the Rings was fairly close to the book, considering the different requirement for movies. Return of the King was totally different than the book with massive changes to some of the characters and events.

[WillAdams]

Judging from the forwards to the various books, it seemed he'd pretty much covered everything he felt needed to be covered, and was repackaging things to a degree for readability (_The Fall of Gondolin_ was esp. noted as that).

Need to get a copy of _The Complete History of Middle Earth_ (and regret not buying the hardcovers when I saw them in a used bookstore, but was still reading my MMPBs) --- guess I'll end up with the boxed set.

Have bought most of the books which have come up for sale, and am currently reading the annotated Hobbit which offers some interesting insights.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I totally missed it, but Christopher Tolkien died a week ago on Jan. 16th at the ripe age of 95. I'm a bit surprised it didn't get more notice.

Tolkien was the literary heir of his father, and was responsible to putting his father's papers in order, editing them and publishing them, most notably The Silmarillion, but also quite a few "unfinished" works and back story for LOTR and the Hobbit.

A great man. A great son.

Tolkien's works and and Edgar Rice Burroughs John Carter Martian Series cemented my interest in Science Fiction,

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I tended to view The Hobbit movies kind of like the James Bond movies, i.e. the books and movies are very different entities.

I can handles changes. Movies aren't books. The Shining is a fantastic movie and it has very little to do with King's book.

The Hobbit movies were just bad movies, all on their own. But the root of their badness lay in the diversions from the book. It made the movies feel sloppy, padded and unfocused, as movies. I think the three movies could be edited down to two shorter movies and they'd be much better.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I can handles changes. Movies aren't books. The Shining is a fantastic movie and it has very little to do with King's book.

The Hobbit movies were just bad movies, all on their own. But the root of their badness lay in the diversions from the book. It made the movies feel sloppy, padded and unfocused, as movies. I think the three movies could be edited down to two shorter movies and they'd be much better.

I guess I expected the Hobbit movies to be horrible because I remember thinking "these aren't as bad as I thought they would be." But, to be honest, the only thing I can really remember about them is the hit song, I See Fire (which I like). I remember quite a few scenes from the LOTR movies — so I guess you have a point. Oh, there is one thing I do remember about the Hobbit that I didn't like, the "del Toro-ization" of the goblins. I liked Guillermo del Toro's many eyed (or no eyed) creatures the first couple times I saw them, but he kind of turned into a one trick pony about it.

[Philippe D.]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I guess I expected the Hobbit movies to be horrible because I remember thinking "these aren't as bad as I thought they would be." But, to be honest, the only thing I can really remember about them is the hit song, I See Fire (which I like).

There is at least another song, one about the Misty Mountains, that I liked.

But to me, it was pretty clear that the whole thing would be a disaster as soon as I learned it was to be a trilogy and not a single movie. OK - it could have been good, but it would have required a lot of smart writing and moving away from the original story.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by rcentros

...the "del Toro-ization" of the goblins. I liked Guillermo del Toro's many eyed (or no eyed) creatures the first couple times I saw them, but he kind of turned into a one trick pony about it.

Aw, I'm a fan of Del Toro. He's a giant nerd that is interested in the same junk I am (oh, and he's a talented director). Horror, kaiju and giant robots. Have you ever seen videos of his house?

He built himsellf a replica of The Car! That guy has my loyalty.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I can handles changes. Movies aren't books. The Shining is a fantastic movie and it has very little to do with King's book.

The Hobbit movies were just bad movies, all on their own. But the root of their badness lay in the diversions from the book. It made the movies feel sloppy, padded and unfocused, as movies. I think the three movies could be edited down to two shorter movies and they'd be much better.

I can agree that they could have been edited down to two movies.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Philippe D.

There is at least another song, one about the Misty Mountains, that I liked.

But to me, it was pretty clear that the whole thing would be a disaster as soon as I learned it was to be a trilogy and not a single movie. OK - it could have been good, but it would have required a lot of smart writing and moving away from the original story.

I really liked Misty Mountains and The Last Goodbye. Into the West from Return of the King was also a good one.

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by crich70

He had siblings I recall right. I have no idea if any of them is still with us though. And even if they are it's a given that none of them is very young either.

Only his sister Priscilla is still alive, and she is 90 years old. There are grand- and great-grandchildren.

[drofgnal]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I can handles changes. Movies aren't books. The Shining is a fantastic movie and it has very little to do with King's book.

The Hobbit movies were just bad movies, all on their own. But the root of their badness lay in the diversions from the book. It made the movies feel sloppy, padded and unfocused, as movies. I think the three movies could be edited down to two shorter movies and they'd be much better.

Yes, they were bad movies. Peter Jackson milking the franchise for all he can. It was rather shameful. LOTR, he did an outstanding job on, The Hobbit, not so much. The whole Hobbit could have been one 3 hour movie and been well done, while sticking to the original book. It they would have been a good companion to the LOTR.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by drofgnal

Yes, they were bad movies. Peter Jackson milking the franchise for all he can. It was rather shameful. LOTR, he did an outstanding job on, The Hobbit, not so much. The whole Hobbit could have been one 3 hour movie and been well done, while sticking to the original book. It they would have been a good companion to the LOTR.

The animated version of the The Hobbit was much closer to the original book. The basic issue is that The Hobbit is a children's book. While the Tolkien purists might really go for a version of the Hobbit that stuck to the book, it would die in the box office.

The history of the making of The Hobbit movies is actually very long and complex. I don't think that one can blame Jackson's greed for how the movies turned out.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Aw, I'm a fan of Del Toro. He's a giant nerd that is interested in the same junk I am (oh, and he's a talented director). Horror, kaiju and giant robots. Have you ever seen videos of his house?

I am a fan of del Toro, too, but I just don't think del Toro and Tolkien mix that well.

[John F]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The animated version of the The Hobbit was much closer to the original book. The basic issue is that The Hobbit is a children's book. While the Tolkien purists might really go for a version of the Hobbit that stuck to the book, it would die in the box office.

...

I don't know about that. As a counter example, look at all the comic book movies that do very well at the box office.

Seems to me, they could have stuck fairly close to the book, and still made a killing at the box office. Full disclosure, I am not in the movie business, and I am a LOTR fan.

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by John F

I don't know about that. As a counter example, look at all the comic book movies that do very well at the box office.

Comics aren't meant for children, at least not if you mean the likes of Marvel or DC. Whereas The Hobbit is a children's book on the level of Alice in Wonderland. There is a difference.