Harder for authors to make a living.....

Pangolin · 03-03-2014, 11:25 AM

http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...st-author-life

Tough times.

fjtorres · 03-03-2014, 12:33 PM

...especially if you think it's 1985 out there.

pidgeon92 · 03-03-2014, 01:31 PM

What, do they think it's just them? It's tough out there for all of us working stiffs.

HomeInMyShoes · 03-03-2014, 02:19 PM

It is harder being a writer now and making decent money at it. There's so many more options to read and so many more authors than there ever were. Supply and demand are still working out that new homeostatic state.

QuantumIguana · 03-03-2014, 02:33 PM

Winning awards isn't necessarily the same thing as winning over readers. One of the comments in the article was telling:

Quote:

I am sick and tired of the sneering masses telling writers to get jobs... writing is a full time job and it pays poorly nowadays because people are cheap and stupid and read whatever cheap crap is thrown at them and even then the author makes almost no money.
The constant march for the bottom line drives artists, unions, middle classes et al into the dirt... and yet somehow those very same people post here mocking writers - astounding.

There are some (note I said some, not all or even most) writers who are highly contemptuous of readers. The reader is the customer. If the customer doesn't want your product, they aren't wrong for not buying it. The writer doesn't have to give the reader what they want, of course, but they legitimately can't blame readers for not reading it.

If your books aren't selling, it might be that the book isn't marketed right, or it isn't what readers want, or it just might not be very good. Believing that your book is great but those %$#^&^* readers don't want it won't help you a bit. No one is entitled to having their books sell. If you're books aren't selling enough, you need to either find a way to sell more books, cut your expenses or get a day job.

Barcey · 03-03-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Copyright is the bone-marrow of the western intellectual tradition. Until the book world, like the music world, can reconcile the extraordinary opportunities provided by the web with the need for a well-regulated copyright system, artists of all kinds will struggle. A bleak situation sponsors desperate remedies. Thomson confides that, "if someone said to me, 'You must give up two of your [already published] books to publish two more new ones,' I would agree to that."

I couldn't believe it when I read that. This type of logic just baffles me.

elcreative · 03-03-2014, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Winning awards isn't necessarily the same thing as winning over readers. One of the comments in the article was telling:

There are some (note I said some, not all or even most) writers who are highly contemptuous of readers. The reader is the customer. If the customer doesn't want your product, they aren't wrong for not buying it. The writer doesn't have to give the reader what they want, of course, but they legitimately can't blame readers for not reading it.

If your books aren't selling, it might be that the book isn't marketed right, or it isn't what readers want, or it just might not be very good. Believing that your book is great but those %$#^&^* readers don't want it won't help you a bit. No one is entitled to having their books sell. If you're books aren't selling enough, you need to either find a way to sell more books, cut your expenses or get a day job.

Definitely this... +1

pl001 · 03-03-2014, 05:21 PM

Really, they've had a tough time since 2007? How odd, I wonder why that could be?

Sydney's Mom · 03-03-2014, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

What, do they think it's just them? It's tough out there for all of us working stiffs.

My thought exactly. The whole system of providing legal services and the structure of lawfirms (few partners, many associates) is changing. Things are moving to India. If your job isn't changing on account of the recession and IT, you probably have a job that will be done by robots in the near future. But it is a scary time. I am glad I am not just starting out.

Hitch · 03-03-2014, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

There are some (note I said some, not all or even most) writers who are highly contemptuous of readers. The reader is the customer. If the customer doesn't want your product, they aren't wrong for not buying it. The writer doesn't have to give the reader what they want, of course, but they legitimately can't blame readers for not reading it.

If your books aren't selling, it might be that the book isn't marketed right, or it isn't what readers want, or it just might not be very good. Believing that your book is great but those %$#^&^* readers don't want it won't help you a bit. No one is entitled to having their books sell. If you're books aren't selling enough, you need to either find a way to sell more books, cut your expenses or get a day job.

+1! It doesn't even have to be contemptuousness; many times, it's simply denial. I see the latter a LOT.

Hitch

Katsunami · 03-03-2014, 06:11 PM

How many times I've heard photographers say things like:

"I'm only doing the weddings for the money."
"Yeah, these product shots are only for the money."
"I hate photographing people's pets/kids/grandparents, but it pays the bills."

Photographers have learned a very long time ago that you only get paid money if you take the pictures that customers want to have taken. That means pets, kids, family members, weddings.... and the "art" thing (taking the pictures YOU want) is just a hobby, and making a living from it is a dream.

There are some photographers that can take whatever pictures THEY want, and sell them as fine art and make a glorious living, but that is maybe 0.1% of the entire market. Most photographers that fall into that category are famous the world over.

I expect it's the same with most writers; 0.1% of writers that make a living by writing what they want to write, a larger group that makes a decent supplementary income next to a normal job, and a huge group of writers that earns peanuts or nothing with their own writings.

cfrizz · 03-03-2014, 06:55 PM

‘I have no private income, no rich wife, no inheritance, no pension. There’s no safety net at all’: Rupert Thomson'

Really and this is whose fault? Anyone with a brain knows that if you are in the arts you damn well better have a day job and be putting money away for a rainy day because you won't be able to survive forever on your art.

Times have changed and the writing was on the wall WAAAY before 2007, if he or anyone else chose to ignore it that is on them.

Sorry, but I have no patience for this kind of ignorant, stubborn, stupidity.

pwalker8 · 03-03-2014, 06:56 PM

Yep. Frankly, not a whole lot has changed from that standpoint in the books business. The vast majority of writers have a tough time making a living and it's been that way since the book industry was big enough to make money at it. A lot of very well known authors wrote for magazines and newspapers in the late 1800's - early 1900's. The pulp writers from the 30's - 60's were churning out stories at an amazing rate. None of this a couple of books a year for them!

bgalbrecht · 03-03-2014, 09:58 PM

I'm not a writer, but I attend science fiction conventions, and it's my impression that for every writer who makes enough to quit his/her day job, there's another 5-10 who can't unless they have a working spouse that makes enough to take care of the mortgage, health care, etc. I don't know whether the numbers are up or down, but I know that this was true 20-30 years ago, just as it's true now. Two published authors (one Fantasy, one mystery) work at my current employer.

Giving away free books sounds really tough, and it is if you don't have many published books, but if an author has written several series, it may be worth it to give away the first book in the series just as advertising.

Lemurion · 03-03-2014, 10:08 PM

I write to pay the bills. It's not romantic, it's just crap that people want enough to pay for. I also write fiction and that's starting to sell.

These authors sound like they're missing the point. It's not about what you've already written, it's about what you're writing and publishing now. Thompson should have accepted that deal from Faber & Faber, because if he really is that good he'd make up the decreased advance with royalties on the back end.

People haven't stopped paying money for books. Honest. People bought some of mine today (and yesterday...).

03-03-2014, 11:25 AM	#1
Pangolin Pangolin Posts: 204 Karma: 1243880 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Brussels, Belgium Device: PW 2	Harder for authors to make a living..... http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...st-author-life Tough times.

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03-03-2014, 12:33 PM	#2
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	...especially if you think it's 1985 out there.

03-03-2014, 01:31 PM	#3
pidgeon92 Wizard Posts: 3,144 Karma: 8426142 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Device: Kindle PW2, Kindle Voyage, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD	What, do they think it's just them? It's tough out there for all of us working stiffs.

03-03-2014, 02:19 PM	#4
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	It is harder being a writer now and making decent money at it. There's so many more options to read and so many more authors than there ever were. Supply and demand are still working out that new homeostatic state.

03-03-2014, 05:21 PM	#8
pl001 Evangelist Posts: 459 Karma: 4818038 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5, Surface 3	Really, they've had a tough time since 2007? How odd, I wonder why that could be?

03-03-2014, 06:11 PM	#11
Katsunami Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,111 Karma: 34000001 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: KPW1, KA1	How many times I've heard photographers say things like: "I'm only doing the weddings for the money." "Yeah, these product shots are only for the money." "I hate photographing people's pets/kids/grandparents, but it pays the bills." Photographers have learned a very long time ago that you only get paid money if you take the pictures that customers want to have taken. That means pets, kids, family members, weddings.... and the "art" thing (taking the pictures YOU want) is just a hobby, and making a living from it is a dream. There are some photographers that can take whatever pictures THEY want, and sell them as fine art and make a glorious living, but that is maybe 0.1% of the entire market. Most photographers that fall into that category are famous the world over. I expect it's the same with most writers; 0.1% of writers that make a living by writing what they want to write, a larger group that makes a decent supplementary income next to a normal job, and a huge group of writers that earns peanuts or nothing with their own writings.

03-03-2014, 06:55 PM	#12
cfrizz Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 34583358 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Quincy, MA Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite	‘I have no private income, no rich wife, no inheritance, no pension. There’s no safety net at all’: Rupert Thomson' Really and this is whose fault? Anyone with a brain knows that if you are in the arts you damn well better have a day job and be putting money away for a rainy day because you won't be able to survive forever on your art. Times have changed and the writing was on the wall WAAAY before 2007, if he or anyone else chose to ignore it that is on them. Sorry, but I have no patience for this kind of ignorant, stubborn, stupidity.

03-03-2014, 06:56 PM	#13
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,195 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	Yep. Frankly, not a whole lot has changed from that standpoint in the books business. The vast majority of writers have a tough time making a living and it's been that way since the book industry was big enough to make money at it. A lot of very well known authors wrote for magazines and newspapers in the late 1800's - early 1900's. The pulp writers from the 30's - 60's were churning out stories at an amazing rate. None of this a couple of books a year for them!

03-03-2014, 09:58 PM	#14
bgalbrecht Wizard Posts: 1,806 Karma: 13399999 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: US Device: Nook Simple Touch, Kobo Glo HD, Kobo Clara HD, Kindle 4	I'm not a writer, but I attend science fiction conventions, and it's my impression that for every writer who makes enough to quit his/her day job, there's another 5-10 who can't unless they have a working spouse that makes enough to take care of the mortgage, health care, etc. I don't know whether the numbers are up or down, but I know that this was true 20-30 years ago, just as it's true now. Two published authors (one Fantasy, one mystery) work at my current employer. Giving away free books sounds really tough, and it is if you don't have many published books, but if an author has written several series, it may be worth it to give away the first book in the series just as advertising.

03-03-2014, 10:08 PM	#15
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	I write to pay the bills. It's not romantic, it's just crap that people want enough to pay for. I also write fiction and that's starting to sell. These authors sound like they're missing the point. It's not about what you've already written, it's about what you're writing and publishing now. Thompson should have accepted that deal from Faber & Faber, because if he really is that good he'd make up the decreased advance with royalties on the back end. People haven't stopped paying money for books. Honest. People bought some of mine today (and yesterday...).

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