Why ePub 3?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

Well, me, as I do not have any ePub3 eReader so I have to buy one should I want someday read one of these wonderful pieces of technology

And all those not having an ePub3-enhanced eReaders.

As someone said ePub3 would default to ePub2 on non ePub3-able eReaders, then either I loose the extra content, which appears to be the earth's omphalos, or, tricky, if there is nothing to loose, then what's the purpose of having ePub3 in the first place...

That's not quite right. The premise of this thread is that publishers are making ePub 3 eBooks that don't need to be ePub 3 because they have no ePub 3 specific features. These are the ePub 3 that will work on your T1. There aren't that many ePub 3 eBooks that need software to render ePub 3.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

As has been mentioned repeatedly, you don't need an epub3 reader to read most of the commercial epub3 books being sold. In fact, I'd wager to say that many people have already unwittingly purchased and read epub3 books. Especially those who just buy and read without fiddling with them.

Ok, so, wait:

I confess, I've skimmed this thread. Have we, or have we not, figured out that ePUB3 eBooks cost more than ePUB2, to buy retail? I'm confused?

As far as I know--and caveat, this ain't worth much--none of our clients are pricing their books, for sale, based on ePUB3 or ePUB2 or Bob's Big eBook Format. They do add $$$ for FXL, because their costs are higher, so they tend to try to recapture that--although, let's face it, the reader doesn't give two sh*ts what the publisher spent to bring it to market, only what it's worth to them. But the FXL is in ePUB3, coincidentally (to facilitate cross-platform capability, unlike ePUB2).

HTH.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Ok, so, wait:

I confess, I've skimmed this thread. Have we, or have we not, figured out that ePUB3 eBooks cost more than ePUB2, to buy retail? I'm confused?

As far as I know--and caveat, this ain't worth much--none of our clients are pricing their books, for sale, based on ePUB3 or ePUB2 or Bob's Big eBook Format. They do add $$$ for FXL, because their costs are higher, so they tend to try to recapture that--although, let's face it, the reader doesn't give two sh*ts what the publisher spent to bring it to market, only what it's worth to them. But the FXL is in ePUB3, coincidentally (to facilitate cross-platform capability, unlike ePUB2).

HTH.

Hitch

The reasoning given that ePub 3 is more expensive than ePub 2 is because in order to read ePub 3, a new Reader would have to be purchased that does handle ePub 3. This is a misconception for most ePub 3 eBooks.

So are you saying that because it costs more to create ePub 3 eBooks, these people charge more? Are these ePub 3 that need an ePub 3 renderer or ePub 3 that could have been done in ePub 2?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The reasoning given that ePub 3 is more expensive than ePub 2 is because in order to read ePub 3, a new Reader would have to be purchased that does handle ePub 3. This is a misconception for most ePub 3 eBooks.

So are you saying that because it costs more to create ePub 3 eBooks, these people charge more? Are these ePub 3 that need an ePub 3 renderer or ePub 3 that could have been done in ePub 2?

No, Wolfie, my sweet:

I'm saying that because the books are in FIXED-LAYOUT, they cost more to build and make, and the clients want to recover their costs as soon as they are able. Let's face it--people who pay for layout/formatting, etc., are a bit behind the 8-Ball, in their ROI, because their investment is greater than the ubiquitous Word-file-uploader. Nothing to do with ePUB2 versus ePUB3.

All those who pay for formatting have a cost-hump to get over, before they are profitable, right? Rather than someone who doesn't count their time (wrongly) as part of their costs.

The additional cost, to be 100% clear, is the fixed-layout, not the ePUB2 versus 3 or what-have-you. Fixed-layout is much more time-consuming to do--assuming it's done correctly, of course. I don't charge more for ePUB3 than ePUB2. I only charge a skosh more--and I mean, a skosh--if someone asks us for BOTH.

Hitch

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Have we, or have we not, figured out that ePUB3 eBooks cost more than ePUB2, to buy retail? I'm confused?

To my knowledge, no evidence has been shown that there's an inherent price increase for books being sold in the EPUB3 format today.

Granted, my personal experience is primarily with the crap-ton of commercial, reflowable novels available in the EPUB3 format. But even with FXL, the price increase isn't really inherent to the spec/format... I assume it's in the considerable amount of extra work involved. Which would probably be the case even if EPUB2 had its own Fixed-layout specs, no?

EDIT: never mind. I can see by your previous post that we're on the same page primarily.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

EDIT: never mind. I can see by your previous post that we're on the same page primarily.

Yup, précisément.

Hitch

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by Hitch

No, Wolfie, my sweet:

I'm saying that because the books are in FIXED-LAYOUT, they cost more to build and make

Hitch

I do not understand. Why you said fixed is more expensive? I see many big publisher in Italy uses EPUB3 fixed when have to create ebook too hard to paginate in ePub2. They simple do not make a new project for the reflow version, but export from indesign in EPUB3 fixed. It is cheap.

I build last year a reflow EPUB3 with different animation for electronic poetry. Well, build an EPUB3 with code *is* more expensive: you need someone to think/write/test the code.

Fabrizio

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by fbrzvnrnd

I do not understand. Why you said fixed is more expensive? I see many big publisher in Italy uses EPUB3 fixed when have to create ebook too hard to paginate in ePub2. They simple do not make a new project for the reflow version, but export from indesign in EPUB3 fixed. It is cheap.

I build last year a reflow EPUB3 with different animation for electronic poetry. Well, build an EPUB3 with code *is* more expensive: you need someone to think/write/test the code.

Fabrizio

Fabrizio:

You're assuming that the source is InDesign. We get scads of stuff (that's not really the word, but, you know, family-friendly forum), and much of it is not in INDD. Hell, I get "kids' books" made in POWERPOINT, brother. I get them in Word. I get them on PAPER. I get them in PDF, made with god-knows-what. Seriously, I kid thee not. You want to try to make a fixed-layout ePUB, from that stuff, knock yourself out.

And yes, we get the usual, embedded audio, yabba-dabba-do. So, yeah, IMHO, it's a crapload more work than reflowable. Sure, we could do what some folks do--just slap jpegs of the pages in, and call it done, but we like to make them the right way, no matter the source material. Silly b*ggers, I know.

(n.b.: you can upload a direct-from-INDD ePUB to iBooks--but in my experience, it's a LOT better to clean it up first. Just offered FWIW.)

Hitch

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Fabrizio:

We get scads of stuff (that's not really the word, but, you know, family-friendly forum), and much of it is not in INDD. Hell, I get "kids' books" made in POWERPOINT, brother. I get them in Word. I get them on PAPER. I get them in PDF, made with god-knows-what. Seriously, I kid thee not. You want to try to make a fixed-layout ePUB, from that stuff, knock yourself out.

Oh, the HELL. Sorry.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Generally, Apple is my largest earner, though I often sell more books on B&N. Kobo is a strong third. Google fourth (not all my books are on Google). And the rest, as you say, are peanuts.

Just checking: Apple is your strongest earner?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by fbrzvnrnd

Oh, the HELL. Sorry.

Don't be silly! No apology necessary. ;-) How could you possibly know? It's a perfectly reasonable assumption, particularly if that's what you're accustomed to.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Just checking: Apple is your strongest earner?

I suspect that NJ meant, AFTER Amazon. I could be wrong, though.

NJ?

Hitch

[radius]

Isn't NotJohn the one selling really ornate, super precisely laid out epub books? Maybe he doesn't make Kindle-friendly versions?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by radius

Isn't NotJohn the one selling really ornate, super precisely laid out epub books? Maybe he doesn't make Kindle-friendly versions?

LOL, no. That's not NJ. He's a lot of things, and he's a many-hat publisher, (he was trade-pubbed for years, before embracing the self-pub revolution as a very early adopter), but "super-ornate" ain't his bag. He doesn't even embed fonts, which he'll cheerfully tell you.

Hitch

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Just checking: Apple is your strongest earner?

Past several months, Apple is always on top. A year or two ago, it was Apple one month, B&N the next. But B&N seems to have faded a lot in 2017.

In numbers, Apple is second. I have two free books, and I gather Apple doesn't do freebies.

I particularly value Apple for its (apparent) access to odd small markets like Poland and South Africa. That is true of Kobo as well, but Kobo for me doesn't sell nearly as many books. It means a lot to me to have my books available outside the Amazon universe.

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by Hitch

He doesn't even embed fonts, which he'll cheerfully tell you.

Hitch

Amen to that!