07-20-2016, 09:09 PM | #1 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Help with accented Greek Alpha please
I've just started work on designing an ebook of Notre-Dame de Paris for the MobileRead library, and am having problems with a Greek word found in the preface, the table of contents, and a chapter heading. I've attached a screen clipping what I've done so far through HTML. But in the original the second Alpha has what one would call in a French word an acute accent. I can't find any HTML entity which could do this, though Α or & # 913; will produce a capital Alpha without an accent.
Is there a special term for a Greek capital Alpha with an acute accent? Does anyone know of a way to produce it in HTML? Last edited by AlexBell; 07-20-2016 at 09:12 PM. |
07-20-2016, 09:27 PM | #2 |
Wizzard
Posts: 11,517
Karma: 33048258
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Roundworld
Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia
|
If you mean Ά, that would be a tonos or an oxia, depending on whether it's modern or ancient Greek*, the HTML entity you want has to be done as a Unicode one for tonos: Ά or for oxia: Ά.
It looks like the first alpha in the screenshot you provide also has one of the breathing marks, so maybe you also want Ἀ, which is Ἀ for "Greek Capital Letter A with Psili" or Ἁ Ἁ "With Dasia". * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics ETA: this link on Computing with Accents, Symbols & Foreign Scripts might also be useful. Last edited by ATDrake; 07-20-2016 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Realized it was the second alpha in the word that was supposed to have the accent. |
Advert | |
|
07-21-2016, 02:36 AM | #3 | |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Quote:
For the breathing mark I cheated and used a ’ For the accent I realised soon after I posted that a far simpler method would be to use Á Neither method is elegant, but I don't think anyone will be able to tell the difference. |
|
07-21-2016, 03:48 AM | #4 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,582
Karma: 22735033
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
|
Quote:
ἈΝΆΓΚΗ And if you embed a subset version of Galatia SIL (or create an SVG image using this font), it'll look pretty much like the original. |
|
07-21-2016, 07:24 AM | #5 | ||
Wizard
Posts: 2,297
Karma: 12126329
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
|
Quote:
Quote:
Code:
<span class="greek" lang="grc" xml:lang="grc">ἈΝΆΓΚΗ</span> el = Modern Greek Then you could easily insert/subset a font + do anything special just for the "greek" class. Also, way back when (2013), in this topic: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho....php?p=2535015 Doitsu pointed me to this site: Lexilogos Ancient Greek Keyboard Online which I still use to this day. Last edited by Tex2002ans; 07-21-2016 at 07:33 AM. |
||
Advert | |
|
07-21-2016, 11:52 AM | #6 |
Enthusiast
Posts: 41
Karma: 262454
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Texas
Device: Nook Glowlight
|
In case it might be helpful, I am pasting a screenshot below from the online Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek-English Lexicon. The basic meaning of "ananke" is 'force, constraint, necessity'.
Wikipedia has a brief entry on Hugo's interpretation of "ananke": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananke..._in_literature |
07-22-2016, 02:52 AM | #7 |
eBook Enthusiast
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
|
Alex, it's perhaps worth noting that accents above words can (in Ancient Greek, at least) safely be omitted. They are there simply to indicate how the word is stressed, and do not form a part of the "spelling" of the word. The "apostrophe" at the start of the word is different; that's a "breathing mark" and indicates whether of not the word starts with an "h". It is a part of the word's spelling and must be there.
|
07-23-2016, 12:58 AM | #8 | |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Quote:
PS I've just looked at the Lexilogos site, and don't see an Alpha the same as the second Alpha in my thumbnail. Perhaps the Oxford Classics Edition is wrong; it definitely has the second Alpha looking like the one in the thumbnail. Now I'm even more confused than I was when I started. It's ancient Greek; perhaps I'll follow Harry's advice. Last edited by AlexBell; 07-23-2016 at 01:11 AM. Reason: PS |
|
07-23-2016, 12:59 AM | #9 | |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Quote:
|
|
07-23-2016, 03:37 AM | #10 | |
frumious Bandersnatch
Posts: 7,514
Karma: 18512745
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
|
Quote:
Ά: GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ALPHA WITH TONOS Ά: GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ALPHA WITH OXIA Á: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH ACUTE I think the first is for modern Greek, the second for ancient Greek, the third for Latin scripts. The first two should probably look the same, and I believe the second is not recommended (i.e., use the first for both modern and ancient Greek). Perhaps the typesetter in your book didn't have the Greek accented character and used the Latin one, or he was following a different convention. This may be relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...ion_in_letters (note "Diacritics can be found above capital letters in medieval texts") |
|
07-23-2016, 03:57 AM | #11 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,582
Karma: 22735033
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
|
Quote:
ἀ GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH PSILI (U+1F00) ά GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH TONOS (U+03AC) And HarryT is, of course, also right in that the capital Greek letters usually aren't written with accents above letters, but Hugo decided to write them with accents anyway. (My version contained the uppercase versions of alpha with psili/tonos.) |
|
07-23-2016, 04:06 AM | #12 | |
eBook Enthusiast
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
|
Quote:
tl;dr version: Don't worry about accents. They don't matter. |
|
07-24-2016, 12:06 AM | #13 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Thanks for all your responses. I feel like a hamster on a treadmill - running faster and faster but getting nowhere.
Doitsu #11 has shown that there is a difference between what a French printer did and what an English printer did. I've decided to do as best I can what Hugo or his English printers did, rather than obsess over what the inscription on the wall (carved in ancient Greek) would have looked like. I'll use Ά for the first Alpha, and Á for the second Alpha. As Harry indicated few modern readers will know what the inscription would have looked like. And I think fewer still will care. |
07-24-2016, 02:56 AM | #14 | |
frumious Bandersnatch
Posts: 7,514
Karma: 18512745
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
|
Quote:
If you go on that road, maybe you want to use N instead of Nu, K instead of Kappa and H instead of Eta, and ’A instead of Ά (and even use a mirrored L for Gamma if you can rely on CSS3 or SVG). If you absolutely want Ά to look like Á, I'd embed a modified font, where you have replaced that glyph, but the underlying text should have "Alpha with tonos", and not "A with acute accent". But I'm a nitpicker |
|
07-24-2016, 05:21 AM | #15 |
temp. out of service
Posts: 2,786
Karma: 24285242
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Duisburg (DE)
Device: PB 623
|
I'm on your side here. If the proper glyphs are available they should be used.
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
accented chars are weirdly managed | pgfiore | Sigil | 20 | 11-27-2014 05:51 PM |
\b matches accented characters | ElMiko | Sigil | 11 | 06-14-2012 12:50 PM |
Sorting with accented characters | chaley | Calibre | 20 | 12-11-2010 07:14 AM |
Accented Greek letters problem | iandri | Sony Reader | 1 | 08-14-2009 11:24 AM |
Accented characters | bingle | Sony Reader | 7 | 07-25-2007 06:36 AM |