E-Ink talks about plans; promises color in 2010

[Treven]

Definately I agree that if I wanted something bigger, I'd carry my 17" laptop around with me all the time, like I do with my 700.

Remember bigger isn't always better; that goes for in bed or for a Kindle.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by Treven

Definately I agree that if I wanted something bigger, I'd carry my 17" laptop around with me all the time, like I do with my 700.

Remember bigger isn't always better; that goes for in bed or for a Kindle.

And do not make the mistake of assuming everyone wants a reader only for reading text/novels. And I DO carry a 17" laptop, including secondary battery, with me everywhere I wander.

My question in my previous comment still stands...why, as implied by fugazied's comment, would a 17" READING device make a reader so "oppressively" heavy? The technology behind the display is the same as a 5"-10" reader as they exists today. So the same sized battery will deliver similar battery life. And even if the battery size is doubled it will add only a few ounces at the most.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

And do not make the mistake of assuming everyone wants a reader only for reading text/novels. And I DO carry a 17" laptop, including secondary battery, with me everywhere I wander.

My question in my previous comment still stands...why, as implied by fugazied's comment, would a 17" READING device make a reader so "oppressively" heavy? The technology behind the display is the same as a 5"-10" reader as they exists today. So the same sized battery will deliver similar battery life. And even if the battery size is doubled it will add only a few ounces at the most.

What is unknown is how much frame it would take to stabilize such a large screen. Once the flex screens are out they may not be as big a deal as it is today.

Dale

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Although, really, to do comics and the like, you don't need a 17 inch screen. 13.9" on the diagonal is what is needed for 8.5x11 page reproduction (with the standard comic being smaller than that)

True enough for comics, but the books I have collected over the years on military hardware tend to be larger in order to display large cut-away illustrations.

Also the same for books on oceanography, with diagrams and cut-aways of submarines.



And who doesn't love a large color photograph of a Manta Ray in it's element?

I love those.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

What is unknown is how much frame it would take to stabilize such a large screen. Once the flex screens are out they may not be as big a deal as it is today.

Dale

agreed. Given the current construction a 17" glass substrate display would be far too fragile to carry around. The weight would be greater for sure, requiring something more along the lines of an MgAlloy case (as opposed to the cheaply made plastic cases used today) with stainless steel frame. But even with that risk of torque related or even direct pressure damage would be much higher with a glass substrate based display.

But again, my question was based in the statement by fugazied that the "power requirements" of a 17" device are far more substantial than current devices and well beyond current battery technology. That is just not correct.

One thing I wonder about color displays is that it implies the ability to display real white not just grey. If they can do that then for most of us a simple B&W display with true white background would be more than enough. However as digital picture frames or for manga/comics lovers it will be really fun!!

I wonder if the reason many of the current color e-ink like displays look washed out is because there is still no ability to provide a true white color?

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

agreed. Given the current construction a 17" glass substrate display would be far too fragile to carry around. The weight would be greater for sure, requiring something more along the lines of an MgAlloy case (as opposed to the cheaply made plastic cases used today) with stainless steel frame. But even with that risk of torque related or even direct pressure damage would be much higher with a glass substrate based display.

But again, my question was based in the statement by fugazied that the "power requirements" of a 17" device are far more substantial than current devices and well beyond current battery technology. That is just not correct.

One thing I wonder about color displays is that it implies the ability to display real white not just grey. If they can do that then for most of us a simple B&W display with true white background would be more than enough. However as digital picture frames or for manga/comics lovers it will be really fun!!

I wonder if the reason many of the current color e-ink like displays look washed out is because there is still no ability to provide a true white color?

Yes, I understand there is no reason that a bigger battery is needed necessarily but I was addressing the weight issue.

Even today the white starts out as pure white and turns gray due to the layers of plastic between the user and the actually E-Ink layer. These layers provide protection from UV and other useful functions. I suspect the color will be subdued for the same reason (washed out to use your term). From what I understand these color screens will use 4 E-ink drops to do color. Green-white, red-white, blue-white, and black-white. Note that the white instead of traditional off (black) in an LCD display. This is an attempt to make the display as bright as possible.

Dale

[Abecedary]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Yes, I understand there is no reason that a bigger battery is needed necessarily but I was addressing the weight issue.

Even today the white starts out as pure white and turns gray due to the layers of plastic between the user and the actually E-Ink layer. These layers provide protection from UV and other useful functions. I suspect the color will be subdued for the same reason (washed out to use your term). From what I understand these color screens will use 4 E-ink drops to do color. Green-white, red-white, blue-white, and black-white. Note that the white instead of traditional off (black) in an LCD display. This is an attempt to make the display as bright as possible.

Dale

I'd imagine that since we're dealing with reflected light instead of emitted light that the colors used would be more in line with a subtractive color model. Something closer to CMYK instead of RGB.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Even today the white starts out as pure white and turns gray due to the layers of plastic between the user and the actually E-Ink layer. These layers provide protection from UV and other useful functions. I suspect the color will be subdued for the same reason (washed out to use your term). From what I understand these color screens will use 4 E-ink drops to do color. Green-white, red-white, blue-white, and black-white. Note that the white instead of traditional off (black) in an LCD display. This is an attempt to make the display as bright as possible.

Actually according to an older press release, color will be achieved using a RGBW [alternating] color filter... which is similar to how it's done with other display technologies (though the white, or rather "clear" filters are added to improve contrast). So the actual eInk microcapsules would still just contain black and white particles.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

Actually according to an older press release, color will be achieved using a RGBW [alternating] color filter... which is similar to how it's done with other display technologies (though the white, or rather "clear" filters are added to improve contrast). So the actual eInk microcapsules would still just contain black and white particles.

Color filters seem to be the case. The effect was as I described but the implementation was different. Thanks for the link. There are several examples http://www.eink.com/press/downloads/index.html on this page.

[badbob001]

Originally Posted by ekaser

We really must get away from "pixel count WxH" resolutions. That worked for years (okay, decades) for computer screens, but this is a new class of device, more akin to a book than a computer (although, as time progresses, the distinction will blur). But regardless, when talking about the display resolution, I think it's much more useful to talk about the DPI (dots per inch) than the absolute count of number of pixels.

DPI is fine for text, where fonts are scalable, and words are reflow-able and legible even at the lowest resolutions. But resolution is important for fixed-sized content, like comics / manga, where the fine lines and text don't scale that well, especially on a device with limited color/grey-scale range. And don't forget about fixed layout formats like PDFs, news papers, and magazines where the layout is part of the message.

Maybe when the resolution is so high, it will not matter, like on printers. Also, DPI calculations are not possible without knowing the resolution since we don't know if the size of the e-ink pixel-capsules are the same size on all displays or if they can make them smaller or denser.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by badbob001

DPI is fine for text, where fonts are scalable, and words are reflow-able and legible even at the lowest resolutions. But resolution is important for fixed-sized content, like comics / manga, where the fine lines and text don't scale that well, especially on a device with limited color/grey-scale range. And don't forget about fixed layout formats like PDFs, news papers, and magazines where the layout is part of the message.

Maybe when the resolution is so high, it will not matter, like on printers. Also, DPI calculations are not possible without knowing the resolution since we don't know if the size of the e-ink pixel-capsules are the same size on all displays or if they can make them smaller or denser.

DPI on e-INK certainly varies from 200 dpi (ppi) on the 5" devices to about 150 dpi on some of the bigger devices. The wiki entries tries to show this value in the description and specifications. I do agree that both ppi and w x h resolution are both important values.

Dale

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

Actually according to an older press release, color will be achieved using a RGBW [alternating] color filter... which is similar to how it's done with other display technologies (though the white, or rather "clear" filters are added to improve contrast). So the actual eInk microcapsules would still just contain black and white particles.

It depends on which color solution wins out. E-Ink was working on an additive color version of eInk for a long time. However, the announcement that iRex put out recently for their color reader says that they are working on subtractive color eInk technology.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It depends on which color solution wins out. E-Ink was working on an additive color version of eInk for a long time. However, the announcement that iRex put out recently for their color reader says that they are working on subtractive color eInk technology.

True enough, and it really doesn't matter so long as they get it to work!

Dale

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It depends on which color solution wins out. E-Ink was working on an additive color version of eInk for a long time. However, the announcement that iRex put out recently for their color reader says that they are working on subtractive color eInk technology.

I imagine a subtractive method would give you better contrast and color depth. Though from what I understand that would require significant changes in the manufacturing process.