Dealing with Kindle ebooks in calibre

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Kaetrin

When I looked, the alpha version said it was untested so I wasn't sure if installing it would break something. Is it okay to install now?

I'm using the Alpha version with no problem. Nobody on MR has reported a problem with the Alpha version.

The reason for the Alpha version is so we can have the latest code without bringing it to the attention of Amazon. That's why it's the Alpha version and not 10.1.0.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I agree. Amazon seems to be once again making a strong push toward blocking methods of extracting books from the Kindle ecosystem.

Amazon updated the DRM in Kindle for PC last year and has released several more new versions since the last one that works with DeDRM. Restricting downloads of books to those older versions is likely to happen soon.

The DRM used by e-ink Kindles has not been updated lately and can still be dealt with by DeDRM. That is likely to change in an upcoming Kindle firmware release, bringing it in line with the PC and Mac apps.

After that it might be months or years until the next breakthrough in kindle DRM removal happens.

Do you really think Amazon would release new firmware for the K3 on up to change the DRM?

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Do you really think Amazon would release new firmware for the K3 on up to change the DRM?

No. I meant an upcoming firmware release to the Kindle models that are still being updated by Amazon.

The 9th generation and older models are apparently safe from receiving updates but run the risk of being prevented from receiving book downloads, even if they are technically capable of doing so, as is being done for older versions of the Kindle apps. I do not believe that the risk is high, but it is there.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

No. I meant an upcoming firmware release to the Kindle models that are still being updated by Amazon.

The 9th generation and older models are apparently safe from receiving updates but run the risk of being prevented from receiving book downloads, even if they are technically capable of doing so, as is being done for older versions of the Kindle apps. I do not believe that the risk is high, but it is there.

The older Kindles (K1, K2, DX, & DXG) either can't download or soon won't be able to download from Amazon as they don't use 4G and 2G/3G is being phased out. It could also be that Amazon is also phasing out Mobi.

[tomsem]

The 9th generation and older models fall into 2 categories: not KFX capable and KFX capable.

It seems to me likelier that the first group are the most vulnerable to getting download cut off (I have a Kindle Touch), so I'll probably look into getting one in the latter group as well for a little more 'insurance'.

I do not think they can phase out Mobi or even Topaz. There are probably a few hundred thousand titles using one of these that were never updated to KF8 and are still being offered for sale.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It could also be that Amazon is also phasing out Mobi.

Very unlikely. As tomsem pointed out there are a lot of older Kindle books that are only available in MOBI format.

Besides that, reflowable books published using Amazon's Kindle Create tool are made available in KFX format with MOBI format being the only fallback for those devices that do not support KFX.

MOBI is the universal Kindle format. AZW3/KF8 is more likely to be dropped than MOBI is.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Very unlikely. As tomsem pointed out there are a lot of older Kindle books that are only available in MOBI format.

Besides that, reflowable books published using Amazon's Kindle Create tool are made available in KFX format with MOBI format being the only fallback for those devices that do not support KFX.

MOBI is the universal Kindle format. AZW3/KF8 is more likely to be dropped than MOBI is.

Maybe Amazon will fix the very broken Kindle Create to fallback to KF8 as the Mobi only devices will soon be cut off.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Maybe Amazon will fix the very broken Kindle Create to fallback to KF8 as the Mobi only devices will soon be cut off.

Kindle Create is not broken. It produces a KPF file for uploading to Amazon for publishing (both Kindle and print) and to the formats that requires.

It is source for generating KF8/AZW3 for devices that don't support KFX. That will continue.

But they don't need support Mobi only devices after the D&T cutoff: they were 2G/3G and that doesn't work, and soon no D&T. They can spin down whatever KPF-to-mobi-converting Kubernetes pods are running and the energy savings will help offset global warming.

It's fortunate that KPF can be converted locally to KFX for side loading purposes (Print Replica not so much). But that's not what KC is designed to do.

Can still get mobi from KPF with calibre/KFX output plugin. I have a K1 to test it!

It would be nice if Send To Kindle would accept KPF.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by jhowell

... After that it might be months or years until the next breakthrough in kindle DRM removal happens.

Given how aggressive Amazon has gotten and noDRM's understandable caution in not making the beta or alpha versions official, gotta wonder, if anyone does figure out the next breakthrough, how widely they will share.

Also wondering how much threads like this one contributed to the aggressive action (and I say that as the OP and maintainer of the first post )

[Kaetrin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'm using the Alpha version with no problem. Nobody on MR has reported a problem with the Alpha version.

The reason for the Alpha version is so we can have the latest code without bringing it to the attention of Amazon. That's why it's the Alpha version and not 10.1.0.

thank you!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by tomsem

Kindle Create is not broken. It produces a KPF file for uploading to Amazon for publishing (both Kindle and print) and to the formats that requires.

It is source for generating KF8/AZW3 for devices that don't support KFX. That will continue.

But they don't need support Mobi only devices after the D&T cutoff: they were 2G/3G and that doesn't work, and soon no D&T. They can spin down whatever KPF-to-mobi-converting Kubernetes pods are running and the energy savings will help offset global warming.

It's fortunate that KPF can be converted locally to KFX for side loading purposes (Print Replica not so much). But that's not what KC is designed to do.

Can still get mobi from KPF with calibre/KFX output plugin. I have a K1 to test it!

It would be nice if Send To Kindle would accept KPF.

eBooks created with Kindle Create have a Moi and KFX version. There is no KF8. That to me is seriously broken.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by odamizu

Given how aggressive Amazon has gotten and noDRM's understandable caution in not making the beta or alpha versions official, gotta wonder, if anyone does figure out the next breakthrough, how widely they will share.

Amazon chooses to maintain the integrity of Kindle DRM, apparently in an effort to lock customers in to their platform. That is in sharp contrast to Kobo who focus more on customer satisfaction and do not seem to be concerned that their DRM is easily defeated.

Amazon's lock in strategy has had two sides for the past ten years. First, maintain the integrity of KFX DRM. Amazon has learned a lot over the years and each generation of their DRM has become more difficult to defeat. I agree that the effort involved makes those who manage to accomplish it less likely to share their results widely.

Second, do away with the older Kindle formats instead of updating their DRM. That has been a slow process but appears to be moving forward more quickly now. Since devices that do not support KFX are coming up on ten years of age that may be a milestone in their retirement.

Originally Posted by odamizu

Also wondering how much threads like this one contributed to the aggressive action (and I say that as the OP and maintainer of the first post )

This thread and others like it that spread the news about DRM removal may be a factor, but is very likely that noDRM's GitHub repository is the primary resource being monitored by Amazon's engineers. NoDRM may be correct that avoiding an official release delayed Amazon's response for awhile but it was always just a matter of time before they again took steps to block DRM removal.

[gordonsj]

"Second, do away with the older Kindle formats instead of updating their DRM. That has been a slow process but appears to be moving forward more quickly now. Since devices that do not support KFX are coming up on ten years of age that may be a milestone in their retirement."

We can only wait and see. I think it is fair to say that there are still a LOT of non kfx Kindles out there whose owners will not be happy. I use mine for reading all the time as I really like the page turn buttons on the Kindle Keyboard.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by gordonsj

We can only wait and see. I think it is fair to say that there are still a LOT of non kfx Kindles out there whose owners will not be happy. I use mine for reading all the time as I really like the page turn buttons on the Kindle Keyboard.

I have a feeling that Amazon/Kindle is big enough to not care about unhappy customers. You see enshittification going on with the Amazon side, lots of delayed deliveries for example.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

I have a feeling that Amazon/Kindle is big enough to not care about unhappy customers. You see enshittification going on with the Amazon side, lots of delayed deliveries for example.

The thing is, there are a lot more customers with non-KFX Kindles that have WiFi then customers who use non-WiFi Kindles.

I do agree that it's time to upgrade form the non-WiFi Kindles. But not the WiFi Kindles.