CLEARink, latest news

[Apache]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Given the undeniable fact that sales of tablets enormously outstrip those of eInk devices, and that owners of such devices read on them frequently (even if only websites and email messages), I’d suggest that it’s perfectly reasonable to conclude that most people are indeed happy to read on tablets.

I am one. I read using a Surface Pro.
Apache

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Apache

I am one. I read using a Surface Pro.
Apache

And I read on my iPad (on which I’m writing this message).

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by pata

They don't 'need' doesn't mean they don't 'want' color. The niche would switch in a heartbeat if offered a competive screen to eink with color

Since the only colour in 99.9% of the books I read is the cover, I can't see myself switching in a heartbeat. I already have a laptop (3840x2160), an iPad Pro and a Google Nexus 7 2013 tablet in my laptop bag just in case I get a craving for colour.

You might also want to check the massive adoption of earlier attempts at colour ereaders. Remember the Jetbook Color? The Hanvon? The Kyobo? Also note that after purchasing Liquavista, Amazon ended up closing the whole company down.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by pata

They don't 'need' doesn't mean they don't 'want' color. The niche would switch in a heartbeat if offered a competive screen to eink with color

No one wants crappy washed out color

[underscore]

Originally Posted by leebase

No one wants crappy washed out color

So far we are watching youtube videos of presentations of screens stucked on a sarcophagus with an above glass and a reflecting neon light.
Not exactly a road test.
Still doesn't look that bad to me compared to previous attempts.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Given the undeniable fact that sales of tablets enormously outstrip those of eInk devices, and that owners of such devices read on them frequently (even if only websites and email messages), I’d suggest that it’s perfectly reasonable to conclude that most people are indeed happy to read on tablets.

Hi Harry. You have completely disregarded my argument. Below the concise rhetoric, I posted an image of a laptop brought outdoors, with an ineffective screen. Which means that currently widespread display technologies are unsatisfactory. (Which, by the way, was already logical to begin with - "light to fight light" is at most a patch.) This, regardless of user satisfaction - which, while being the point of the OP, I intended to expose as partial.

In fact, biological evolution evidently favours the proliferation of people with a "contentment gene", regardless of the quality of their adopted solutions (npt to mention, ir-regardless of irrational factors). Just take a look around the streets and count the proportion of people with mobile devices and glossy screens. Evidently "[crucifixion] at least gets you out in the open air" - or better, just "Crucifixion? Which crucifixion?". So, using market success as a parameter to evaluate a product in general (or its relative success) is, well, at most an idle remark about "I doubt this will replace movie theaters".

Of course I understand that some people live in caves, or spend the northern dark season in Greenland and the southern one in Patagonia, and so write their messages with embers instead of charcoals like the rest of us, and I can respect that, but I do not see the point, when we are discussing the quality of new pellet for stoves, of interventions like "Here in Dubai we think that your stoves are not a priority (and also Brisbane is skeptic)".

But now, going back to your argument, I see that I cannot find it convincing. In fact, you are using "read" in a compromising sense (good for an E-mail, for a web page). Well, for a few seconds browsing this site I also have not immediately switched to "inverted screen", no rush - it is not a matter of blasphemy -, but this post is composed white-on-black as intended - it is a matter of not insulting the Gods. And if the sales of tablets outstrip those of E-Ink devices, I would say it is because the standard displays (and the systems distributed with them? Did Onyx have competitors?) can be much more versatile, not because the buyers had to speed-up studying the Britannica.

Originally Posted by leebase

No one wants crappy washed out color

Here, myself - I do not mind at all. You are posting in "mobile read". I was the other day reading some demographic report, with some results organized in coloured chunks within the bars. I grant you my drive was to discriminate which chunk was "homicide" and which was "theft", which "red-blooded passion" and which "pastel-tinted hobby", not if photography would satisfy Michael Mann. The purpose of colour in this context is to bring information - once that is done, postcards. (With the possible partial exception of artbooks. Which, being exceptional, support the rule.)

Originally Posted by underscore

So far we are watching youtube videos of presentations of screens stucked on a sarcophagus with an above glass and a reflecting neon light.
Not exactly a road test.

Yes, and there's more - none of us has apparently seen the displays directly. Videos - espacially those scarce available - are not enough. How white is the white, how tinny the shades, how natural the global effect...

Originally Posted by underscore

Still doesn't look that bad to me compared to previous attempts.

It's very promising. At least something is moving.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I already have a laptop (3840x2160), an iPad Pro and a Google Nexus 7 2013 tablet in my laptop bag just in case I get a craving for colour

You have two devices and a snail (I also have the latter) which fail in being reflective,
and supposedly other devices, reflective, which fail in framerate, not just colour.

Originally Posted by DNSB

You might also want to check the massive adoption of earlier attempts at colour ereaders. Remember the Jetbook Color? The Hanvon? The Kyobo? Also note that after purchasing Liquavista, Amazon ended up closing the whole company down.

The first list, I believe, covers the E-Ink Triton displays: bad final effect, and without solving the framerate issue.
Liquavista: somebody slept with the wrong wife, gave stupor to the wrong brother and run away with the wrong money - or the other faults the technology may have had and which are not so easy to be found documented (coincidence?).

Of course, here I am considering the display technology beyond its adequacy for reading, say, a novel. For that, DNSB has already replied: «Since the only colour in 99.9% of the books I read is the cover...».

[leebase]

I have no issue with folks wanting something to exist. Time will tell if my prognostication s of what will happen come true of not. But I've been pretty good at calling these things over the years.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by mdp

You have two devices and a snail (I also have the latter) which fail in being reflective,
and supposedly other devices, reflective, which fail in framerate, not just colour.

Are you referring to the Nexus as the snail? For what I use it for which is basically a cheap Wifi signal strength meter, it is more than adequate. As for failing in framerate? I am not going to try watching videos on a device where the display refresh rate is measured in tenths of seconds.

I am quite happy to use multiple devices -- the laptop is great for its intended purposes which include running 6 or 7 virtual machines. The iPad Pro has it's uses as well. Having multiple devices keeps all problems from looking like nails.

Originally Posted by mdp

The first list, I believe, covers the E-Ink Triton displays: bad final effect, and without solving the framerate issue.
Liquavista: somebody slept with the wrong wife, gave stupor to the wrong brother and run away with the wrong money - or the other faults the technology may have had and which are not so easy to be found documented (coincidence?).

Of course, here I am considering the display technology beyond its adequacy for reading, say, a novel. For that, DNSB has already replied: «Since the only colour in 99.9% of the books I read is the cover...».

Actually, 2 devices with e-Ink Triton 2 displays and one with a Mirasol display.

As for Liquavista, the most probable issue seems to have been that the final product was not going to be able to compete on price. An unverified comment I saw claimed that the yield rate was less than 50%. Another example of a solution in search of a problem.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Are you referring to the Nexus as the snail? For what I use it for which is basically a cheap Wifi signal strength meter, it is more than adequate

That one. Also as a patience trainer.

Originally Posted by DNSB

As for failing in framerate? I am not going to try watching videos on a device where the display refresh rate is measured in tenths of seconds. [...]
Having multiple devices keeps all problems from looking like nails

Of course you don't, you are supposed not to because that is the logic I proposed. To counter my statement, you probably meant "Yes, when Vancouver's weather allows (but denies use of my other devices) I am excitedly happy to watch video on EPD, through - sorry - unpublished algorithms that optimize A2 for dot persistence and minimal ghosting, thus making lack of color and stability and definition and battery efficiency less missed". But even though you do, and I salute your inquiring spirit, we can theoretically have better than EPD to move windows and desktops and pointers and carets around.
To re-express the previous post more plainly: to get an all-round display, reflectiveness is welcome, colour is welcome, film (even lower than 24Hz) refresh rate is welcome. That refresh rate is not there just for movie animation, it is also important for normal OS interface interaction.
There is no device in your bag to solve the basic problem of using a desktop/productivity OS outdoors, or "outdoors" non-literally but extensively meaning "without full power of lighting regulation". (EDIT: I mean, you could use your laptop, but then you would also have to bring around the portable lamp with the darkbulb, which is further bulk, hassle, energy drain etc.)
To the man with a hammer, an unreadable screen in a fair day calls for mastery in self control.
"Unreadable screen" can be (is, had been) already the otherwise excellent OLED of my palm assistant.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Actually, 2 devices with e-Ink Triton 2 displays and one with a Mirasol display. As for Liquavista, the most probable issue seems to have been that the final product was not going to be able to compete on price

I missed the Kyobo. It seems that the 6'' Mirasol display cost a good part of the 300$ of the final product (the 6'' E-Ink costs 150$ with frontlight and touch layers). Of course that's hardly competitive, since E-Ink's "cost per pixel" is already several times the one of LCD and similar... Now, CLEARink is supposed to get much closer to LCD costs, so hoping that side will not give surprises the big residual question could remain the quality of the visual result.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Another example of a solution in search of a problem.

Which problem you do not see? Mobility. They say it's the future. Some of us want to be able to use computers around, outside the range of the CRT monitor cable. They are heavy, bulky, and I cannot move them much far without a generator. And, they also really prefer being used under a big umbrella.

[kyteflyer]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Since the only colour in 99.9% of the books I read is the cover, I can't see myself switching in a heartbeat. I already have a laptop (3840x2160), an iPad Pro and a Google Nexus 7 2013 tablet in my laptop bag just in case I get a craving for colour.

You might also want to check the massive adoption of earlier attempts at colour ereaders. Remember the Jetbook Color? The Hanvon? The Kyobo? Also note that after purchasing Liquavista, Amazon ended up closing the whole company down.

Amazon has a habit of shutting down its acquisitions. I'm still annoyed over its dumping of Stanza and the Stanza team.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Are you referring to the Nexus as the snail? For what I use it for which is basically a cheap Wifi signal strength meter, it is more than adequate.

Originally Posted by mdp

That one. Also as a patience trainer.

But it was so much fun updating it after Google dropped support. Currently on AICP's 8.1 release.

As for the remainder of your post about working outdoors? Yes, Vancouver, where you don't tan, you rust so most days, reading outdoors would require the use of one of my waterproof ereaders. As for work? My work spaces are indoors. One has a window, the other two feature concrete all around. For most of what I do, if I wanted to work outdoors, I would need to find a spot with decent WiFi connectivity that allows use of a VPN.

Originally Posted by mdp

There is no device in your bag to solve the basic problem of using a desktop/productivity OS outdoors, or "outdoors" non-literally but extensively meaning "without full power of lighting regulation". (EDIT: I mean, you could use your laptop, but then you would also have to bring around the portable lamp with the darkbulb, which is further bulk, hassle, energy drain etc.)

No device in my bag for a desktop/productivity OS outdoors? That's where my laptop comes in. It's more powerful than many desktops (CPU, RAM, storage) and lets me run Windows, Mac OSX and Linux (you did notice the virtual machines mentioned in my post). Admittedly, I like using the docking station with keyboard, mouse, dual 27" monitors but those are conveniences not necessities and only available in one of my workspaces.

As for lighting, the few times I've used my laptop outdoors simply positioning the screen to minimize the reflections makes it usable. And note that these were emergency type situations where I needed access to the MAN without taking the time to return to the great indoors. Normally, when I am outdoors, I am relaxing not working.

Originally Posted by mdp

Which problem you do not see? Mobility. They say it's the future. Some of us want to be able to use computers around, outside the range of the CRT monitor cable. They are heavy, bulky, and I cannot move them much far without a generator. And, they also really prefer being used under a big umbrella.

As already stated, my laptop is more powerful than many desktops and is, while not quite as light as a Macbook Air or Ultrabook, easily portable.

Though I am wondering what a portable lamp with a darkbulb is? Doesn't Hawking radiation makes using it a short term option.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As for the remainder of your post about working outdoors? Yes, Vancouver, where you don't tan, you rust [...] My work spaces are indoors [...]
No device in my bag for a desktop/productivity OS outdoors? That's where my laptop comes in

There you are. And in fact, not surprisingly, EPD displays are made in Taiwan.
As already expressed in post #141, what have you thought the last time you mentioned the phenomenon of soaked, undryable rust in Vancouver and you were replied "Strange, here in Khartoum we do not have that problem?". And what about that time you went to renew your passport, and you were told "I do not understand Sir, mine has not expired"?

For reference, this is how we use laptops below the Arctic circle:



You may also have seen photos around of pioneer mobile computing users also holding earlier precursors of darkbulbs, in form of chemical powders, to help absorb excessive light from environment. Unfortunately, they are still impractical, because the power of the Sun remains difficult to match. Yes we have invented mostly effective instruments, such as walls, but they - bulky, cumbersome, heavy - still remain a weakness in the mobility plan.

But the thing is, it is in general stupid to fight environmental light (as people may remember from those times they opposed a locomotive with their chest - too much effort required, a real imbalance in the energy costs, they have concluded). This is why we went for carving clay and staining papyrus, in those times in which humanity kept their wits down-to-earth. Reflective...

Originally Posted by DNSB

As for lighting, the few times I've used my laptop outdoors simply positioning the screen to minimize the reflections makes it usable

While in my study, of course of carefully pondered rational arrangement, I have to manage the blinds to get adequate visibility on my monitor. Not to mention the already mentioned phone.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Normally, when I am outdoors, I am relaxing not working

If you knew what you are missing...

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Normally, when I am outdoors, I am relaxing not working.

Originally Posted by mdp

If you knew what you are missing...

In my youth, I worked on a ballast gang one summer and spent several other summers working for forestry and wildfire services. I know what I am missing by not working outdoors and I can't say that I miss it.

[Matilo]

Much better picture of front light: