Telling time in U. K. English

[amward]

Originally Posted by issybird

Speaking of teatime, one of my pet peeves is when an author uses the phrase "high tea" to mean a formal tea with teeny sandwiches, scones and so forth, not realizing that high tea is a working class meal akin to supper, dinner having been eaten midday. Americans get this one wrong a lot.

Well here high tea IS a formal afternoon tea with sandwiches, petit fours and all manner of lovely things. There are quite a few places that specialise in high teas. On the other hand we call our evening meal tea but not high tea, it's generally only dinner if we are going out.

Fascinating all the different ways of using the same language.

[DMB]

Then there is "cream tea", typically served in Devon and Cornwall. This, apart from tea to drink, mainly consists of scones with jam --usually strawberry -- and clotted cream.

[DMB]

I've just thought of another US/UK difference and that is "gravy". In the UK this is what you have with roast meat. It is typically made in the roasting tin after the joint is removed and involves the juices and fat from the meat, mixed with a little flour or other thickening agent with the addition of other liquids. I usually add wine and stock. I was astonished the first time I had gravy in the USA and it turned out to be white and served with American biscuits.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by DMB

I've just thought of another US/UK difference and that is "gravy". In the UK this is what you have with roast meat. It is typically made in the roasting tin after the joint is removed and involves the juices and fat from the meat, mixed with a little flour or other thickening agent with the addition of other liquids. I usually add wine and stock. I was astonished the first time I had gravy in the USA and it turned out to be white and served with American biscuits.

US has two main types of gravy, brown and white. Both types are still made with meat drippings. White gravy, has milk and more flour mixed in to make it thicker (plus usually pepper). Biscuits and gravy is a common breakfast food, especially in the south. Country fried steak is also served with this type. Brown gravy is the gravy you're used to. It is common here as well, and most often seen served on mashed potatoes or on roast beef.

[SeaBookGuy]

Originally Posted by mrbanana

'Pardon' is another odd word. 'Pardon', is a normal response in the North West if you don't hear someone and would like them to repeat what they said, but in the South of England, some people see nothing wrong in simply saying 'What', which sounds rude to me. This probably has its roots in the old fashioned class system.

On the subject of greetings, I've always thought the formal 'How do you do?' with the automatic response of 'How do you do?' without the expectation of a response to be rather silly.

In the North West you hear 'Are you all right.' or simply 'All right' all the time, along with 'Hiya', both delivered in what to my ear is a rather annoying high pitched sing song voice.

For birthdays, as already stated, people tend to say 4th of July, 10th of November, etc.

The trouble is, due to fashion, and the influence of modern global media, the language is constantly in flux, and what might be accurate today in one social group, may not be accurate a few years later.

A perfect example is the modern use of 'like' and 'love'. Just about everyone under 30 seems to say 'I am loving it' or 'I am liking it'. If you point out the verb tense is wrong, you will then probably have to explain what a verb is, and by the time you realise you will then have to explain the differences between dynamic and stative verbs both parties will probably have lost the will to live.

Maybe it's my age but to my ears it's one of those language quirks that triggers memories of racist comedians from the 70's and their deeply unfunny jokes at the expense of people from the Indian subcontinent.

Saying "What?" to indicate one hasn't heard is quite rude! I would say either "Sorry?" or "Excuse me?" - a digression that one may encounter a black American expression "Excuse you!" if one accidentally jostles another (or some such) and doesn't apologize for it, from the jostled to the jostler.

I have not seen "How do you do?" (rare these days in its own right) replied with the same. "I am loving it" is used to show emphasis on how awesome "it" is; you should expect to hear amongst the Younger Set "I totally love it!" ("I am totally loving it!") soon.

Originally Posted by djchapple

My American friends who come from Rhode Island but have lived nearly all their married lives in Florida always uses burgularis(z!)ed and I have seen it in the local papers whilst over there.

One other difference between American English and UK English is the that sometimes one sees surprized and at other times surprised. I an a very old ex university lecturer (engineer) and i am still confused and delighted by the wonderful differences in language that continue to crop up in everyday usage.

I still maintain burglarized still sounds funny (and brings to mind an image of the McDonald's Hamburgler). "Surprized" looks horrific to me; I have never seen it, and if I did it'd be a "What the hell?" moment.

I, too, find these differences fascinating. Any "right/wrong" nonsense is tedious.

Originally Posted by djchapple

The Americans love turning nouns into verbs, for example "deplaned" for leaving an aircraft. I find that bastardisation of the language annoying.

I have mostly heard that used by the airline itself during landing instructions, but "disembark" seems more common, or even "exit" I'd say.

[SeaBookGuy]

Saying "What?" to indicate one hasn't heard is quite rude! I would say either "Sorry?" or "Excuse me?" - a digression that one may encounter a black American expression "Excuse you!" if one accidentally jostles another (or some such) and doesn't apologize for it, from the jostled to the jostler.

I have not seen "How do you do?" (rare these days in its own right) replied with the same. "I am loving it" is used to show emphasis on how awesome "it" is; you should expect to hear amongst the Younger Set "I totally love it!" ("I am totally loving it!") soon.

I still maintain burglarized still sounds funny (and brings to mind an image of the McDonald's Hamburgler). "Surprized" looks horrific to me; I have never seen it, and if I did it'd be a "What the hell?" moment.

I, too, find these differences fascinating. Any "right/wrong" nonsense is tedious.



I have mostly heard "deplane" used by the airline itself during landing instructions, but "disembark" seems more common, or even "exit" I'd say.

[SeaBookGuy]

Originally Posted by DMB

MY origins are in southern England. For us, tea was a meal between lunch and dinner and apart from the beverage, often served with a choice of "Indian or China?", might be accompanied by bread and butter, sandwiches and the odd cake. "High tea" was something eaten by working-class people and northerners who might call their midday meal "dinner" and would probably still have the ubiquitous drink but a much more substantial hot meal.

I still remember the agony of going out to tea when I was a small child. The rule was always that one couldn't have cake until one had first eaten at least one slice of bread and butter. No children ever wanted to eat the bread and butter.

I had thought "China tea" referred to the posh crockery used, as opposed to slopping out the beverage with everyday ware.

Originally Posted by DMB

I've just thought of another US/UK difference and that is "gravy". In the UK this is what you have with roast meat. It is typically made in the roasting tin after the joint is removed and involves the juices and fat from the meat, mixed with a little flour or other thickening agent with the addition of other liquids. I usually add wine and stock. I was astonished the first time I had gravy in the USA and it turned out to be white and served with American biscuits.

If you are invited to a meal at an Italian-American home, you might well see tomato sauce in a gravy boat, referred to as "gravy". As mentioned the white gravy with biscuits is a southern American thing, though now found throughout the land.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by amward

Well here high tea IS a formal afternoon tea with sandwiches, petit fours and all manner of lovely things. There a quite a few places that specialise in high teas. On the other hand we call our evening meal tea but not high tea, it's generally only dinner if we are going out.

Fascinating all the different ways of using the same language.

High tea has been corrupted here to mean the same thing. People misunderstood "high" to mean posh or fancy, and spun the term "high tea" 180º, so that it's the virtual opposite of its original meaning. But in my curmudgeonly manner, I prefer unadulterated definitions and stick to the original.

A favorite example of where the same term means the exact opposite in English and American is the verb "to table." In the UK, to table a motion is to consider it; in the US, it means to put it aside. Two peoples divided by a common language and all that.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by DMB

Then there is "cream tea", typically served in Devon and Cornwall. This, apart from tea to drink, mainly consists of scones with jam --usually strawberry -- and clotted cream.

Delicious! I love cream tea! It is very difficult to find a proper scone in America. I've found that often scones in England are made with golden raisins (sultana is not a well-known word here) whereas American scones served at formal tea are often made with cranberries.

By the way, I learned to make gravy exactly as you describe. I am not a fan of white gravy and biscuits to put it mildly.

Regarding bread and butter, it is the biggest difference in table etiquette that I struggle with. Bread is often served in a basket just like in the US, although English rolls tend to be more flat and less round than ours. First thing everyone does is break or slice the roll in half and then the butter each side. Maybe it's the region where I spend my time but all the guys at the table do this so it must be considered acceptable. That is exactly what I was taught not to do. I feel out-of-place as I eat my bread by breaking off and buttering one bite at a time.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

That is exactly what I was taught not to do. I feel out-of-place as I eat my bread by breaking off and buttering one bite at a time.

Yes, I was taught it was uncouth to butter all your bread/roll at once. Just one of those rules, like spooning your soup away from you, that serves as a litmus test of your knowledge of etiquette and helps keep Emily Post and her minions in business.

[DMB]

In England it is another class thing. I was taught that it is terribly "naff" to cut one's roll; it should always be broken by hand. And both toast and rolls should be buttered (or spread with marmalade) a bit at a time.

What/pardon is by way of being largely class-determined. "What" is acceptable except in lower middle-class circles. "Pardon" is naff, and "I beg your pardon" is OK, but a little OTT.

[SeaBookGuy]

I do tear rolls apart by hand now, since I realized later in life that was preferred to cutting them. However, when I dine alone (or with my family), I tear the roll into smaller pieces and butter each first, before consuming any. Are you saying you butter each bite of toast at a time? Toast at breakfast usually comes pre-buttered by the staff; however, I jelly (put jelly/jam upon) all of the slices up front as well.

[DMB]

Yes. I cut off a bite-sized piece of toast, butter it and spread it with marmalade.

[SeaBookGuy]

Since it's my thread, I'll hijack it further to say that I was confused at British mention of making sandwiches with brown bread? Here, that's eaten hot dogs and baked beans! We have no generic term for non-white bread that I know of, but would specify the type (whole wheat, rye, etc.).

[wodin]

Originally Posted by SeaBookGuy

Since it's vaguely related to the thread topic -- when is "teatime"? And is it a class distinction, or does almost everyone partake of it?

During my time in the US Navy, I would spend a couple of months each year in Scotland. I was on a submarine(s) that would spend a month at a time doing repairs and maintenance in the Holy Loch in preparation for a two month deployment. The nearest town was Dunoon, and we would spend considerable time carousing the pubs there.


They had an uncivilized custom there, in that they would shutter all of the pubs during “Queen’s Hour”, which as I recall happened every day between 2:00 and 4:00 PM. The locals called these unfortunate periods “Tea Time”, and they were most inconvenient for a young Yank sailor with limited free time.

I soon learned that the pubs on the ferryboats would stay open during Tea Time, and around 1:30 or so, I would get on the first ferry large enough to have an on board watering hole going ANYWHERE! Once I got on one going somewhere, and around three, began to get hungry. So I got off at the first town, which turned out to be Faslane, and went to an Indian restraint that served the best curried prawns that I ever had.

While my mates and I were eating, we noticed that at the next table, there was a group of young men with English accents talking about “refits”, and “crew changes” and “deployments. So we introduced ourselves as crewmembers of the USS Tecumseh, and learned that they were our counterparts on the HMS Repulse. PARTY TIME!

I have to report that out British brothers were the most wonderful hosts that I ever encountered during my 23 year career in the Navy, and will never forget the wonderful time they showed us.

Despite the uncivilized hours of operations of the pubs and the most horrid weather imaginable, and oh yes and the warm beer, I have fond memories of my time in Scotland.