The Vent and Rant Thread

[Rumpelteazer]

It always so hard getting out of bed the day after Christmas!

I had hoped I had a chance to go shopping today but it being a school holiday my father wants me to work all day. The weather is stormy again so I wouldn't be surprised if it was quiet today. Mind you, it being a school holiday and people having been cooped up inside for two days it wouldn't surprise me if it's going to be busy. I'm just praying the number of hyperactive (on Christmas treats) and annoying (bored of having to shop) children are low today.

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by wannabee

Apparently you are not the only one displeased.
http://www.naturalnews.com/043332_UP...breakdown.html

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Well, there have been some rather unusual extenuating circumstances as of late, meteorologically speaking.

I can understand that there are problems. But airplanes have been flying, trains have been running, and there are only small sections of road between southern California and southern Florida that have been slowed down... none for six days. It takes less than three days for an 18-wheeler to make that run. Give them a full day for backed up roads, even two days, and the'd still make the run in five days. But UPS FLYS stuff coast to coast... They only use trucks for state to state local runs.

I placed an order for fencing gear with a company in China. They shipped via FedEx on Wednesday. I received it today in northern Thailand. NOT in BANGKOK... waaay up here in the boonies, 12 hours north of the big city. Three days from China to Northern Thailand, two international borders, two customs clearances, and it still managed to get here in three days. UPS can't go state to state in less than six? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!


Stitchawl

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I can understand that there are problems. But airplanes have been flying, trains have been running, and there are only small sections of road between southern California and southern Florida that have been slowed down... none for six days. It takes less than three days for an 18-wheeler to make that run. Give them a full day for backed up roads, even two days, and the'd still make the run in five days. But UPS FLYS stuff coast to coast... They only use trucks for state to state local runs.

I placed an order for fencing gear with a company in China. They shipped via FedEx on Wednesday. I received it today in northern Thailand. NOT in BANGKOK... waaay up here in the boonies, 12 hours north of the big city. Three days from China to Northern Thailand, two international borders, two customs clearances, and it still managed to get here in three days. UPS can't go state to state in less than six? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!


Stitchawl

Shipping delays amongst all carriershas been a major bone of contention this holiday season. I don't believe anyone has even attempted to explain what the issue has been. It has affected everything from letters to packages. Amazon is in the midst of issuing major refunds due to the delays. Not sure why they should take it in the shorts as opposed to the carriers though.

[ProfCrash]

The reports I read was an unprescedented number of last minute orders filled. UPS and FEDEx did not have enough people working to cover the load. Toss in ice storms that have knocked power out for over 10 days from Michigan to Maine, other crappy weather, and fewer airplanes flying and some packages didn't get delivered for Christmas Day.

[CRussel]

And toss in a long history of overworking existing employees (leaving no margin for picking up the extra load), and antiquated IT software and hardware that hasn't had the budget it needed to have.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

The reports I read was an unprescedented number of last minute orders filled. UPS and FEDEx did not have enough people working to cover the load. Toss in ice storms that have knocked power out for over 10 days from Michigan to Maine, other crappy weather, and fewer airplanes flying and some packages didn't get delivered for Christmas Day.

Seriously, I have to wonder what people expect. In the "I walked 5 miles to school in the snow" category, I remember when if you hadn't ordered something by NOVEMBER 15th, it would never arrive in time for the Christmas holiday. Given that some unheard-of number of people ordered items on the 22nd/23rd, AND there were major storms knocking out power all across the midwest and eastern seaboards, AND flights were grounded....geeeze, people, it's not like they could employ Santa and Rudolph to get everything where it needed to go.

Hitch

[poohbear_nc]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Seriously, I have to wonder what people expect. In the "I walked 5 miles to school in the snow" category, I remember when if you hadn't ordered something by NOVEMBER 15th, it would never arrive in time for the Christmas holiday. Given that some unheard-of number of people ordered items on the 22nd/23rd, AND there were major storms knocking out power all across the midwest and eastern seaboards, AND flights were grounded....geeeze, people, it's not like they could employ Santa and Rudolph to get everything where it needed to go.

Hitch

Ahhh yes .... the inevitable 'caution' on the back of the cereal box: Allow 6 weeks for shipping & handling ....

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Seriously, I have to wonder what people expect. In the "I walked 5 miles to school in the snow" category, I remember when if you hadn't ordered something by NOVEMBER 15th, it would never arrive in time for the Christmas holiday. Given that some unheard-of number of people ordered items on the 22nd/23rd, AND there were major storms knocking out power all across the midwest and eastern seaboards, AND flights were grounded....geeeze, people, it's not like they could employ Santa and Rudolph to get everything where it needed to go.

Hitch

I have a different take on the situation...
They are a delivery company.
They KNOW that the Christmas season puts greater demands on their service.
(They have experienced this every year since their inception. It's no surprise.)
As a delivery company, they have certain obligations to fulfill for their customers to maintain certain standards of service. If that takes hiring on extra personnel for a few weeks each year, THAT is what is necessary. It's a very common requirement for the holiday season that many different businesses employ to maintain the standards of service that their customers expect. In business, there is NO excuse for failure. There is, however, a result for failure.
We may, as individuals, understand the 'why' of it. We may even empathize with it. But as consumers, we'll choose a different company to deal with next time, no matter how badly we feel for the offending outfit. As Remo says; "That's the biz, baby!"


Stitchawl

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I have a different take on the situation...
They are a delivery company.
They KNOW that the Christmas season puts greater demands on their service.
(They have experienced this every year since their inception. It's no surprise.)
As a delivery company, they have certain obligations to fulfill for their customers to maintain certain standards of service. If that takes hiring on extra personnel for a few weeks each year, THAT is what is necessary. It's a very common requirement for the holiday season that many different businesses employ to maintain the standards of service that their customers expect. In business, there is NO excuse for failure. There is, however, a result for failure.
We may, as individuals, understand the 'why' of it. We may even empathize with it. But as consumers, we'll choose a different company to deal with next time, no matter how badly we feel for the offending outfit. As Remo says; "That's the biz, baby!"


Stitchawl

Stitch:

And the consumers don't know it's Christmas? They have zero obligation in that regard? The Christmas holiday just up and bit them in the ass? (Surprise! It's Christmas in 2 days. Quick, click on something on a website and have X delivered to your house by magic!). And who's responsible for the massive snowstorm that shut down airports, thus preventing the UPS and Fedex planes from takeoff and landing with their cargos?

I've received many, many deliveries from UPS after 9:00 p.m. at night during the holiday season. Hell, for that matter, I've had that happen in mid-summer. They run whatever crews they need, to deliver what they've agreed to deliver. But they have ZERO control over a bunch of shoppers that decided to buy items less than 48 hours before the Christmas morning, and they certainly can't control weather conditions. Which carrier and delivery service IS it that you think would have met those delivery dates, exactly, under those circumstances? The Post Office? Lotsa luck with that.

They all use planes, and they all have to be able to get in and out of airports. Without the hub structure working, they have zero capability, and the hub can't work if craploads of airports are shut down or even slowed down. Not to mention, but who's to say that Amazon, et al, actually put the massive overload of last-minute shoppers' purchases ON the planes on time?

Honestly, we've all become spoiled rotten. If "getting the gift on time" was that bloody important to us, I guess we could have gone out OURSELVES and bought the item locally, wrapped it ourselves and DELIVERED it ourselves.

As gift-givers, we have certain obligations to fulfill for our friends and family to maintain certain standards of gift-giving. If that takes buying a gift a few days earlier each year, THAT is what is necessary. It's a very common requirement for the holiday season that many different people SHOP, themselves, on actual legs, to maintain the standards of gift-giving that their friends and family expect. In gift-giving, there is NO excuse for failure. There is, however, a result for failure.

Right?

Hitch

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Stitch:

And the consumers don't know it's Christmas? They have zero obligation in that regard?

I don't believe anyone said that they didn't. They certainly need to make their purchases long before the expected date of delivery, especially in known periods of high customer traffic... Just as the delivery companies need to hire on temporary staff to deal with the higher traffic. Unfortunately, in this day of belt-tighening and bean-counting, hiring the lowest possible number of temporary workers has become the norm, and sometimes THAT bites a company in the ass...

And who's responsible for the massive snowstorm that shut down airports, thus preventing the UPS and Fedex planes from takeoff and landing with their cargos?

When was the last time a California or Florida airport was shut down due to snow storms? Not all flights need to use hubs, especially companies that fly non-passenger routes.

But they have ZERO control over a bunch of shoppers that decided to buy items less than 48 hours before the Christmas morning

I'm not exactly sure with whom you are arguing. In my post, I didn't say anything about Christmas deliveries. My package wasn't a Christmas present. It didn't need to arrive on a specific day, it just had to arrive in a timely fashion. A total of seven days from point A to point B, both southern locations, when the company promised 3-4 days isn't good business practice.

Which carrier and delivery service IS it that you think would have met those delivery dates, exactly, under those circumstances? The Post Office? Lotsa luck with that.

Frankly, I find the Post Office far more reliable than UPS or FedEx. At least when they can't deliver and have to hold on to the package, the post office doesn't charge a storage fee plus and insurance fee for doing so as FedEx or UPS does.

Not to mention, but who's to say that Amazon, et al, actually put the massive overload of last-minute shoppers' purchases ON the planes on time?

I don't know when Amazon et al put their packages on the planes, I just know when UPS picked up MY package from the supplier and delivered it to the specified destination. That took seven days, six of which showed absolutely no movement according to the tracking record.

Honestly, we've all become spoiled rotten.

That's very true. We've actually come to believe that when a company tells us they will do something, we believe they will do it. If they won't, we usually find a different company. To prove this point, think how many companies have gone out of business because they couldn't meet the customer's expectations. We 'could' say that the customers expectation were unrealistic, or, just as easily, we could say that the company failed to meet its promises. But when the customer's expectation is based on what the company promises but fails to deliver, there is no question of fault.

As you say, there is NO excuse for failure. There is, however, a result for failure. The result, in this case for me, is that I'll add UPS to the list of companies with which I will no longer rely upon for deliveries. I'm sure they won't miss 'my' business, but it would seem that I'm not alone in this complaint.

I would like to ask, though... It seems that you are taking a VERY personal stand in this matter. Are you somehow related to a UPS employee? Your level of anger seems to great for just a casual reflection.


Stitchawl

[bjones6416]

I think it must depend a lot on where you are, because I love UPS. I've been an Amazon Prime member since it first came into being, so I've had a lot of UPS deliveries through the years, both here and at the other house. They have come through for me consistently. USPS? I don't know anybody who has had worse luck with them then I have. At my old house, they seemed to change carriers every few weeks, and mail would just...not arrive. Complaints didn't help. Here, mail comes, but it is often shredded.

So yeah, loyal UPS customer here. I'm sorry your package got so delayed, Stitchawl. But I have to agree with Hitch that here, stateside, there seems to be an "entitled" mentality that ignores things like power outages and ice storms. :-)

[Stitchawl]

I was lucky in that my package wasn't time-sensitive. Any business needs to live up to its claims if it wants to stay viable. If there are that many people complaining in the States, it would seem that not every area has the same efficient delivery system in place. Point in fact; my order came from a California vendor and was sent to a Florida destination. Both US locations, one of 'em even shares a border with Georgia. Had nothing to do with international shipments. Both without snow delays. Yet the company failed to provide the service it claimed to offer. In fact, an order I placed with a Chinese company for international delivery came in faster despite having to go through two international borders and two separate Customs clearances. Travel by truck, then air, then by large truck, then by smaller delivery truck up to northern Thailand. Hardly a Mecca of International Trade, yet my order arrived three days after the Chinese firm handed it over to the shipper.
To me... that's good business.
The shipper did what it promised to do.
UPS did not.


Stitchawl

[theinfamousj]

What we have here is a conflict of mindsets.

On the one hand, we have a rules-follower who takes comfort in codified rules (the package will arrive in four days) and whose world is rocked when those inviolate rules are breached. My Mom is one such, so I understand. And I understand the distress it causes. My mother uses me as her coal mine Canary and calls me each time she, or others, are unable to deliver on these inviolate promises. She will then relax if I tell her that it is a situation worthy of forgiveness.

On the other hand, we have those who are able to be more forgiving and flexible without their world being seriously shook on its foundations. As a tip to those in the latter mindset - because I am and learned this lesson long ago - it isn't entitlement that runs the former mindset, and no words can change it. It is a combination of strictly codified honor - a person of the former mindset WILL ALWAYS, regardless of unanticipated challenges, fulfill a promise - and fear (how to trust the world when the assurances you receive don't actually mean what they say on occasion; is this one such occasion?).

To Stitchawl - The suggestions that you are making would have to be enacted back in October, and no one foresees an act of God (what the weather was). UPS is neither omniscient nor more powerful than the almighty. I wish you luck in trying to find a shipping company that is, but if you have been happy with what UPS has done up until this package, I urge you to give them another chance.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I have a different take on the situation...
They are a delivery company.
They KNOW that the Christmas season puts greater demands on their service.
(They have experienced this every year since their inception. It's no surprise.)
As a delivery company, they have certain obligations to fulfill for their customers to maintain certain standards of service. If that takes hiring on extra personnel for a few weeks each year, THAT is what is necessary. It's a very common requirement for the holiday season that many different businesses employ to maintain the standards of service that their customers expect. In business, there is NO excuse for failure. There is, however, a result for failure.
We may, as individuals, understand the 'why' of it. We may even empathize with it. But as consumers, we'll choose a different company to deal with next time, no matter how badly we feel for the offending outfit. As Remo says; "That's the biz, baby!"


Stitchawl

Much as I love Remo I have no expectations regarding shipping at Christmas. The volume is probably 10 times higher. I ordered 6 items from Future Shop and all but one arrived in 48 hours via Canada post. The last item is still in transit 12 days later

Not much I can do as the vast majority of companies use Canada Post even for expedited, and in the summer Canada Post and Greyhound are the only shippers to where I live. I keep my expectations low and am more often than not pleasantly surprised.

Just curious as to how you will deal with this. Are you boycotting all companies that use only UPS?

Helen

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Much as I love Remo I have no expectations regarding shipping at Christmas. The volume is probably 10 times higher. I ordered 6 items from Future Shop and all but one arrived in 48 hours via Canada post. The last item is still in transit 12 days later

Not much I can do as the vast majority of companies use Canada Post even for expedited, and in the summer Canada Post and Greyhound are the only shippers to where I live. I keep my expectations low and am more often than not pleasantly surprised.

Just curious as to how you will deal with this. Are you boycotting all companies that use only UPS?

Helen

We're not _quite_ that bad here, but close. FedEx will deliver here, though without any delivery date guarantees. UPS? Forget it. They "deliver" by sticking it into Canada Post. And there is no real way to ship out via UPS. Purolator will sometimes actually deliver to the house, but mostly only via Canada Post (which is pick up in the PO only.)

We have a saying here -- "If it absolutely, positively, has to be there overnight -- don't send it here."