Fantasy or science fiction?

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by Quoth

There is no sharp division.

You're right. But there is a division in my mind. To me, time travel is fantasy. But FTL is only highly improbable, as far as we know. Both of them serve to put the story in a desired locale, or are necessary to the plot for some reason. These days people are using the many worlds hypothesis the same way. Somewhat "scientific" and completely fantastic.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

You're right. But there is a division in my mind. To me, time travel is fantasy. But FTL is only highly improbable, as far as we know. .

FTL _travel_, as far as we know, is completely impossible.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by meeera

FTL _travel_, as far as we know, is completely impossible.

And less than a hundred years before that yelling, flags and mirrors were thought to be the only way possible to communicate wirelessly.
Apache

[Quoth]

It's obvious what SF and F are till you try and write down a set of rules.

But mostly when we read stuff we accept the publisher or author assigned genre without thinking too deeply about it.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by meeera

FTL _travel_, as far as we know, is completely impossible.

True. As far as we know, massive objects can't move in normal space at the speed of light. However, there are hypotheses about ways to get somewhere quicker than light does. Highly improbable, but good enough for fiction.-)

[Cactus Chef]

Originally Posted by issybird

(I only read HP, for example, because I started it with a young nephew.)

I eagerly await the day when my surrogate niece or nephew wants me to read some HP Lovecraft to them!

...Oh? You mean that other "HP"? Nevermind then.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Partly because so many famous comics, TV shows and Movies are only SF because they are in the future, or in space or "special powers" and labelled as SF. They use magic called technology.

Most successful SF (movies, comics, TV and many novels, but not as much as the visual media) seems to ignore not just known science, but logic and Laws of Thermodynamics. Lots of "Magic by another name" and technobabble.

Most successful material labelled as SF has less "rules" than many High Fantasy works.

There is no sharp division.
Dune and Pern Series are sold as SF, but have more Fantasy elements than SF elements.

Imho lots of phisical media nowadays tends to transalte anything to epopee of war: "Dune" from 1984 wasn't, unlike the recent version; and the epic "The Lord of the Rings" from Ralph Bakshi instead the trilogy from Peter Jackson).
Sorry if this was too OT.

[JSWolf]

I also read a lot of mystery and thriller type books. Not many non-fiction and some fiction (not SF, fantasy, mystery, or thriller)

[conan50]

Interesting comments. With Star Wars it is hard to know where the Science Fiction ends and Fantasy begins

This quote came to mind:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by conan50

Interesting comments. With Star Wars it is hard to know where the Science Fiction ends and Fantasy begins

This quote came to mind:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke.

Think of it this way... Pern is also science fiction. Not all stories with dragons is fantasy,.

Think of the Force as latent abilities such as telekinesis.

Whoever one series comes to mind (I've read it) is the Apprentice Adept series by Piers Anthony. It's both science fiction and fantasy. The series features two worlds, Phaze and Proton, each with its own unique characteristics; Phaze being a lush planet of magic and Proton a barren mining planet of science.

[lera]

for me, i specifically love these kinds of settings that blur the line between the two genres :3 the sorts of advanced technology that feels like magic and the sorts of magic that can be investigated under a looking glass

yes there's a lot of classical scifi technology that can feel magic-adjcacent - the above-mentioned ftl, wormholes/bending space, and time travel as the most out-there examples, but also misc nanotechnology and atomic compilers - but for me it's more a question of leaning into the vibes, like if this particular setting decides to embrace the union wholeheartedly! i mostly seen such topics explored in fanfiction and abstracted worldbuilding though, can't really recollect a good book example of this off the top of my head

[nana77]

The works of Arkady and Boris Strugatsky are special for that lines (imho), as often there is no tech shown involved, thought just a mistery of it, as in "Roadside Picnic" or as in "Hard to be God" where it starts like this:

Spoiler:

(and in this case -imho again- it was special the movie too, within its long-takes)
I forget to mention that the first Dune was made by David Lynch,

Even the word "stalker" has changed its meaning, today (in the book or in the first movie it was someone's job, whose had quite a spare dinner -and a 2 liters of wine-, and would have going searching manufacts to sell into the contaminated zone.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Whoever one series comes to mind (I've read it) is the Apprentice Adept series by Piers Anthony. It's both science fiction and fantasy. The series features two worlds, Phaze and Proton, each with its own unique characteristics; Phaze being a lush planet of magic and Proton a barren mining planet of science.

All the Birds in the Sky (Charlie Jane Anders) is another example of a book that's explicitly both SF and F.

[lera]

Originally Posted by nana77

The works of Arkady and Boris Strugatsky are special for that lines (imho), as often there is no tech shown involved, thought just a mistery of it, as in "Roadside Picnic" or as in "Hard to be God" where it starts like this:

jajaja i should absolutely read more of the strugatskys! of them i read (and loved!) Monday Begins on Saturday as well as the Tale of the Troika, those two are like explicitly magic but exactly under a looking glass (of a certain research institute). i think that's absolutely an example yeah!

[kandwo]

I voted "Some other type of speculative fiction".

I want to get into reading SF since there are a lot of TV series and films in that genre that I absolutely love. But I have always perceived the classics of the genre as very dry with bad prose. Too interested in the mechanical aspects of technology, using characters and other worlds as a prop or an excuse to investigate the scientific/engineering aspects.

I'm sure I'm wrong about that. It's just the impression I have, and I haven't been able to get over it and try the genre out.

On the other hand I used to read a lot of fantasy when I was a kid. But I got fed up with the genre. I switched to reading classics and found them more interesting.

Now I'm slowly getting back to reading some fantasy. I just need it to have "literary" qualities: interesting characters, psychological depth, some philosophy, etc.

I recently read some Ursula Le Guin. She pretty much writes exactly what I want. And apparently she's written a lot of SF, as well. I'll give it a try at some point

The Strugatskys for me are hit-and-miss: I loved Picnic by the Wayside, liked Monday Begins on Saturday and absolutely hated Hard to be God with all my heart.