Thoughts on writing

[crich70]

I'm having a good night this evening in terms of notes for a writing project. I don't know if it's the new App or just the warmer weather but I'm having idea after idea for story events tonight. I've already got ideas for 18 scenes (which I will later have to put in proper order) and new characters just seem to be popping up out of the woodwork demanding to have time onstage. Maybe I'll have things set up ahead of time for NaNo or maybe I'll just forge ahead. Haven't made up my mind yet, but I did some rough math and figured for abour 50 scenes spread among 25 chapters(50k word count) so I already have possible scenes for about 36% of the story. I did do some reading and youtube watching recently that helped I think. One youtube vid spoke of having a character with a Desire and a Goal. The desire being what they want and the Goal of course being how that Desire is manifested. Ie. Someone attacked Jack's sister so he wants revenge is a Desire and his Goal is to kill the attacker. And of course there has to be something to frustrate the MC so he can't just achieve his goal. The reading was via an ebook about writing a book in 3 days (the 3 day contest) and emphasized having an Idea, A character and an outline. i think the last flows from the 1st two myself. An Idea is basically Desire and Goal mixed together.The frustration factor is where the outline comes in. Anyway I'm feeling inspired this evening and plan to keep those tinderbox tools handy in the future.

[Nabeel]

Good for you, Crich. I've got diverted from my first fiction-writing project by some urgent teaching.

Still, I will return!!

[gmw]

I think the good nights are what keeps us coming back. It's getting that first taste, that first buzz, and getting hooked. So we come back night after night looking to get the same high. ... Oh dear, am I on the right forum.

If the inspirational advice (like the desire and goal stuff) work for you then, sure, you should use them. The reason why there are so many articles that list such similar advice is that most stories can be boiled down to find these attributes as a sort of innate truth (there has, after all, got to be some point to the story and some reason for the character's actions). But I do suggest that you be careful that following clichéd advice doesn't lead to a completely clichéd story. Yes, you must be able to look back over your story and see that the characters have reasons for theirs actions, but you must also leave room for the characters and story to surprise you. Get to know your characters (good and bad) and keep an eye out for character and story attributes that may lead to less obvious choices. Such things can give a tale unexpected elements, something of a spark that helps you and the reader enjoy the ride.

[crich70]

I think you make a good point gmw. In fact that was part of what the guy in the vid mentioned about tension I think. If a character needs $50.00 (Desire) to pay his phone bill (goal) and he just goes to the bank and gets a loan readers will say 'so what?' and stop reading. Goals need frustrations (conflict) and the longer the story the more conflict or the stronger a conflict you need I imagine. Most stories can be broken down to a formula I'd guess but that doesn't mean that the finished story should follow a cliched path. I mean Obstacle to love could go:

1. boy meets girl
2. boy and girl fall in love
3. someone disapproves of their being together
4a. boy and girl find a way to overcome the obstacle and live happily ever after
or 4b. boy and girl fail to find a way to stay together. ie. one dies, one can't stand up to family/society or any of a number of other obstacles.

In essence that's the plot of Romeo & Juliet in a nutshell. It's the frustrations (conflicts) within the play that make it what it is. And the tragic ending also helps to create the sense of reality I think. Even today the same story is taking place in real life. I think that's another point we can take from Shakespeare. He may have sometimes stretched credibility with his coincidences (in the comedies) but he kept some sense of grounding as well. His characters react in realistic ways. Hamlet wants vengeance for his father but he also has doubts as to if what he believes happened actually did happen. Living human beings today know that same mixed feeling of outrage and doubt. Shakespeare just put it into overdrive in the case of Hamlet.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Nabeel

Good for you, Crich. I've got diverted from my first fiction-writing project by some urgent teaching.

Still, I will return!!

What subject do you teach Nabeel?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by crich70

I'm having a good night this evening in terms of notes for a writing project. I don't know if it's the new App or just the warmer weather but I'm having idea after idea for story events tonight. .......

Originally Posted by gmw

I think the good nights are what keeps us coming back. It's getting that first taste, that first buzz, and getting hooked. So we come back night after night looking to get the same high. ... Oh dear, am I on the right forum.
.....

"Will work again on the novel today. Writing is a hard business Max but nothing makes you feel better."
- Ernest Hemingway to Maxwell Perkins 1938 Selected Letters p 474

[crich70]

I've been reading over Plotto by William Wallace Cook and he breaks the creation of a "Master Plot" into 3 basic parts:
1. A Clause - Protagonist clause (desire)
2. B. Clause - this initiates and develops the action (conflict)
3. C. Clause - this continues and terminates the action (goal)
Basically he beat me to the Desire/Goal idea by a good margin. It still makes sense though. Character has to have a desire for something, a reason they can't just have it, and there has to be a resolution (good or bad) to their quest to obtain it.
One example that comes to mind is the 1st Indiana Jones movie.

Spoiler:

1. Indy wants to find and get the Arc of the Covenant to safety
2. The Nazi's want the Arc for their own evil purposes
3. Indy saves the Arc from going to Nazi Germany only to have the U.S. Government tuck it away in some anon. warehouse where it may never be found.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by kennyc

"Will work again on the novel today. Writing is a hard business Max but nothing makes you feel better."
- Ernest Hemingway to Maxwell Perkins 1938 Selected Letters p 474

Mr. Perkins was the editor for a good many authors back in the day I understand.

[Nabeel]

Hi Crich,

Officially, I'm a historian, but I'm now a semi-retired academic odd-job man... and reasonably happy in that position.

Sharif

[Nabeel]

Crich mentioned the obvious plot 'boy meets girl'. I thought that you might be interested to know that there was a Stalinist twist on this one, during the period of the First Five-Year Plan (1928-32... yes, it's only 4 years!). This was when the USSR state was pushing very hard for rapid industrialisation of all sectors, particularly agriculture, and every resource was being mobilized, including writers. The official literary doctrine was 'socialist realism', which meant showing Marxist principles through literature. Not a bad idea in itself, but under Stalin it was given a particularly brutal and crude interpretation.

The result?

'Boy meets tractor.'

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Nabeel

Hi Crich,

.... (an) academic odd-job man... and reasonably happy in that position.

Sharif

Sounds like a great main character for a story!