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Old 08-31-2018, 08:54 PM   #46
shalym
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Originally Posted by sealbeater View Post
Perhaps. Perhaps you are overthinking it? What do I know, I've never ever ever had to convert or deal with PDFs before.

/s for those who missed it.

You've used the Poppler tools?

I'm not that big of a stickler but if PostScript supports it, I'm sure I could extract it.

Sed works wonders.

What's hit or miss about it?

That is something I would have to think about but I believe when there's a will, there's a way. Maybe something with PostScript and multi-line justification. I would have to investigate should I ever have enough time and interest.

I think I could do a good enough job to meet my needs. I like how much you qualified my statement with requirements. "Any/all PDFs" "high-quality epub (whatever that means)", etc. I think I could come up with a good solution. I know I would try my hand at it rather than shell out $99 bux. I appreciate your suggestion that I drop all my current projects, including my day job to persue this but my day job pays quite well and it's thanks to my skills in coming up with solutions to problems like this that is why I get paid so well. I already am able to retire if I were to choose to do so.

You are free to regard me as your New Messiah if you like however.
Why would you need to drop all your current projects, including your day job if you could script it out in about 20 minutes?

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Old 08-31-2018, 09:35 PM   #47
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Why would you need to drop all your current projects, including your day job if you could script it out in about 20 minutes?

Shari
The suggestion to drop all of my current projects, including my day job, was the respondent's, not mine.

As for scripting it out in 20 minutes, I don't know *exactly* how long it would take for me to do it but I don't think it would be overly difficult. Take the 20 minute timeframe as an indicator of the relative difficulty of the problem, not an estimation of exact time spent.

Most of it would be generating the epub file and how best to output the pdf for cleaning.
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Old 08-31-2018, 11:22 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by sealbeater View Post
The suggestion to drop all of my current projects, including my day job, was the respondent's, not mine.

As for scripting it out in 20 minutes, I don't know *exactly* how long it would take for me to do it but I don't think it would be overly difficult. Take the 20 minute timeframe as an indicator of the relative difficulty of the problem, not an estimation of exact time spent.

Most of it would be generating the epub file and how best to output the pdf for cleaning.
Maybe you can.
Have you written a decompiler before? Or a BASIC interpreter? Or a program to convert, say, FORTRAN TO C++?
That is the scope of the problem.

See, pdf is not a simple data format. It is a full programming language, derived/extended from Postscript. pdf files are software, not bitmaps or encoded text blocks. You can write games and malware in pdf.

https://security.stackexchange.com/q...ontain-a-virus

This may help get you started:

https://nubuntu.org/postscript-vs-pdf

http://tailrecursive.org/postscript/postscript.html

Converting pdf to an editatable format is one of the great challenges of the age. Many have tried, millions in currency have been spent, none have fully succeeded. All require extensive manual cleanup.

If you succeed, people will shower you with cash.

Good luck!
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Old 09-01-2018, 03:46 AM   #49
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Maybe you can.
Have you written a decompiler before? Or a BASIC interpreter? Or a program to convert, say, FORTRAN TO C++?
That is the scope of the problem.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've converted PDF to editable formats quite readily and easily. Only problem is if the PDF is composed of images and even then, it's easy enough to convert to html and from there, I assuming to epub. I still haven't looked into a suitable way to create an epub from cmd line.

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See, pdf is not a simple data format. It is a full programming language, derived/extended from Postscript. pdf files are software, not bitmaps or encoded text blocks. You can write games and malware in pdf.
None of this is news. Nor is it really relevant.

As an aside, you can't write malware in pdf. Nor do I find it likely you can write games in "PDF". You can encapsulate code but I would like to see malware **written** in *pdf*, whatever that means. I'm aware of PostScript being a programming language but not PDF.


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Converting pdf to an editatable format is one of the great challenges of the age. Many have tried, millions in currency have been spent, none have fully succeeded. All require extensive manual cleanup.

If you succeed, people will shower you with cash.

Good luck!


I'm assuming you've never used the Poppler tools then. That or your gift for hyperbole is unmatched.

pdftotxt ring a bell? Although personally, I would probably try to convert to XML. to have best chance of perserving italics and bolds.
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:00 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by sealbeater View Post
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've converted PDF to editable formats quite readily and easily. Only problem is if the PDF is composed of images and even then, it's easy enough to convert to html and from there, I assuming to epub. I still haven't looked into a suitable way to create an epub from cmd line.



None of this is news. Nor is it really relevant.

As an aside, you can't write malware in pdf. Nor do I find it likely you can write games in "PDF". You can encapsulate code but I would like to see malware **written** in *pdf*, whatever that means. I'm aware of PostScript being a programming language but not PDF.






I'm assuming you've never used the Poppler tools then. That or your gift for hyperbole is unmatched.

pdftotxt ring a bell? Although personally, I would probably try to convert to XML. to have best chance of perserving italics and bolds.
pdftotext is a program that somebody already spent lots of time creating. Using that is hardly writing a pdf to epub converter. That is using somebody else's work to extract raw text and then running an epub encoder, keeping all the imperfections introduced by the text extractor.

Not at all comparable to what was requested.
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:32 AM   #51
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pdftotext is a program that somebody already spent lots of time creating. Using that is hardly writing a pdf to epub converter. That is using somebody else's work to extract raw text and then running an epub encoder, keeping all the imperfections introduced by the text extractor.

Not at all comparable to what was requested.
Actually, re-read what I wrote and tell youself that again and then go practice some reading comprehension. All I said was that writing a script that converted from pdf to epub would be trivial. You are the one who started spouting off with "Have you written a decompiler before?", "Or a program to convert, say, FORTRAN TO C++?" I mean, that was ridiculous. Way to really overthink a problem.

Also, who said anything about keeping all the imperfections introduced by the text extractor? Have you ever heard of ispell? I already have a perl one-liner that can take care of hyphenated words. Do you even know how to chain commands together? Your thinking is extremely limited.


Tell me, is the author of the Poppler tools your New Messiah?

EDIT: Also, you never answered my twice asked question. Have you ever used the Poppler tools?

EDIT2: I guess you don't know what a "script" is either.

Last edited by sealbeater; 09-02-2018 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 09-02-2018, 05:49 AM   #52
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@sealbeater. If it is that easy, do it. I won't bore you with the history but there are many books available only as pdf's. I avoid this format like the plague on e-ink readers. Your comment about ispell in your last post simply showcases your ignorance, as it is showcased at many other places in your posts on this subject. Spell checkers generally are zero help with things like homophones or many OCR errors or layout errors. Nor do they deal with things like page headers and footers including page numbers which are fine with a fixed layout but not with a reflowable epub. Putting it quite bluntly I have never found a tool which takes a pdf as input and produces an intermediate format or an epub which does not require substantial manual editing. Results vary from readable to rubbish.

With a little coding knowledge I'm sure it is trivial to write a script that converts pdf to epub very badly. Do you think it is trivial to write such a script which reliably produces near perfect results? How about even marginally acceptable results? If you do it is time to put up or shut-up. If not, then .....
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:34 AM   #53
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@sealbeater. If it is that easy, do it.
As I already said, I have neither the time nor the interest. I may tho, I just may...I'm curious to see how good xml to html would be.

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I won't bore you with the history but there are many books available only as pdf's. I avoid this format like the plague on e-ink readers.
Good for you. I remember when pdfs were difficult on e-readers. As I already stated, I've converted plenty. I'm aware of the pitfalls and I'm also aware of the workarounds.

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Your comment about ispell in your last post simply showcases your ignorance, as it is showcased at many other places in your posts on this subject.
Somehow, I doubt it's *my* ignorance that's being showcased. Certainly hasn't been so far.

You can think I'm ignorant if you like however. I don't mind.

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Spell checkers generally are zero help with things like homophones or many OCR errors or layout errors.
You don't say. Why would they be? Did I say somewhere that they would be?

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Nor do they deal with things like page headers and footers including page numbers which are fine with a fixed layout but not with a reflowable epub. .
I think I mentioned sed. Do you know what that is?


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Putting it quite bluntly I have never found a tool which takes a pdf as input and produces an intermediate format or an epub which does not require substantial manual editing. Results vary from readable to rubbish..
Perhaps that depends on your method and the type of pdf you were sourcing. Different pdfs require different methods. I have found the Poppler toosl quite adequete in taking pdfs as input and outputting intermediate formats. Have you ever converted a pdf to xml?

Putting it quite bluntly, no matter what, I've managed to find ways.

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With a little coding knowledge I'm sure it is trivial to write a script that converts pdf to epub very badly.
I'm glad you are only speaking for yourself.

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Do you think it is trivial to write such a script which reliably produces near perfect results? How about even marginally acceptable results? If you do it is time to put up or shut-up. If not, then .....
Why are you asking me questions I have already answered? "Near perfect results". I was quite clear when I said "good enough to suit my needs" and the results would depend on the quality of the pdf but yes, I do.

As for putting up or shutting up, I'm required to do neither. I don't jump though hoops for you. Even if I were to write such a script, I doubt you would be able to even run it. I doubt you have even heard of half of the tools I could use.
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Old 09-02-2018, 08:26 AM   #54
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@sealbeater. I'm very familiar with the problems involved in converting pdf to intermediate formats and epub, as I spent a little time on it some years ago before concluding it was simply not worth the effort in most cases. I'm quite familiar with all of the tools you are talking about. What you describe is a manual process of using these tools. Using sed to remove headers and footers is easy enough manually. But, as you should know, there is a world of difference between using these tools manually on a case by case basis, and incorporating their use into an effective "one size fits all" script.

You seem to have sufficient skills to accomplish the former but not the latter, despite your apparent high opinion of your skills and your apparent assumption that the rest of us don't have any. I look forward to seeing a working script from you, failing which:

A man of words and not of deeds
Is like a garden full of weeds

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Old 09-02-2018, 09:22 AM   #55
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@sealbeater. What you describe is a manual process of using these tools. Using sed to remove headers and footers is easy enough manually. But, as you should know, there is a world of difference between using these tools manually on a case by case basis, and incorporating their use into an effective "one size fits all" script.
Anything that can be done manually can be scripted.

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You seem to have sufficient skills to accomplish the former but not the latter, despite your apparent high opinion of your skills and your apparent assumption that the rest of us don't have any.
When someone tells me writing a script is the equivalent of

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Have you written a decompiler before? Or a BASIC interpreter? Or a program to convert, say, FORTRAN TO C++?
That is the scope of the problem.
Yea, I do have to question. Prior conversations have already formed the framework under which I operate. Most of you don't really have much in the way of skills, sad as it makes me to say. See previous quote for an example.


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I look forward to seeing a working script from you, failing which:
Should i ever be bothered, you'll be the first to know.


That's a nice quote, although unattributed. Here is another one.




Those who say it can't be done are usually interrupted by others doing it.

-- James A. Baldwin
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:44 AM   #56
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Why not just stop wasting time in replying here and just code it

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Old 09-02-2018, 09:51 AM   #57
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Why not just stop wasting time in replying here and just code it
Because I don't jump though hoops for Internet forum users and I am doing other things at present. Why don't you give it a shot? I've left enough clues for a good starting point. So have others in this thread, although their response seems to have been ignored.
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Old 09-02-2018, 11:46 AM   #58
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@sealbeater

The particular software which was the subject of this particular thread was not exactly a resounding success, nor does any other product appear to exist which performs the task adequately.

You obviously don't have the skills to do it. In fact some of your comments make me wonder if you have any meaningful coding skills at all. You clearly have no idea of the complexities involved in writing such a script, yet sneer at others who point it out to you. There is a world of difference between manually converting a few pdf's on a case by case basis and scripting a general solution which gives acceptable results on most occasions.
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Old 09-02-2018, 05:11 PM   #59
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@sealbeater

The particular software which was the subject of this particular thread was not exactly a resounding success, nor does any other product appear to exist which performs the task adequately.
That's why I said it almost made me want to write a script that can do it.

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You obviously don't have the skills to do it.
Do what? Write a script? Convert a pdf to epub? As I said, I've already assessed your ability. You are entirely welcome to hold any opinion on me you want.

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In fact some of your comments make me wonder if you have any meaningful coding skills at all.
Like what?

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You clearly have no idea of the complexities involved in writing such a script, yet sneer at others who point it out to you.
No, I'm aware of the complexities. I just don't think they are that complex. For every problem, there is a solution. That's my philosophy. Yours and others seems to be "Well it can't be done, why even try?" That's fine for you. Not for me.

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There is a world of difference between manually converting a few pdf's on a case by case basis and scripting a general solution which gives acceptable results on most occasions.
A world of difference? An entire world? See, it's comments like that that make me judge your ability.
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:07 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by sealbeater View Post
No, I'm aware of the complexities. I just don't think they are that complex. For every problem, there is a solution. That's my philosophy. Yours and others seems to be "Well it can't be done, why even try?" That's fine for you. Not for me.
No. I think it can be done so as to achieve acceptable results in most but not all cases, but would be so time consuming as to be not worth the effort. And it would certainly take a level of coding skill which I expect is well beyond your abilities. As fjtorres put it in his earlier post:

Quote:
Maybe you can.
Have you written a decompiler before? Or a BASIC interpreter? Or a program to convert, say, FORTRAN TO C++?
That is the scope of the problem.
He also explained further and set out a challene. You have failed to properly address the reasons he gave and it seems you don't understand them. The challenge, of course, you have declined for an obvious reason, and that is not your stated one.

Good luck.
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