Child-friendly vocabulary --- a Quandary

[eschwartz]

Huh, that does change things...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Cue a recital in Old English by HarryT. And that certainly deserves an actual translation, for all that it is, um, technically just an older form of English?

Old English needs translation; it's a different language, which a modern English speaker would struggle to understand a word of. A completely different situation to the one being discussed here, which is a change in the meaning of a few words.

[eschwartz]

So you're saying it is just a difference in scale?

Sure. Whatever floats your boat.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

So you're saying it is just a difference in scale?

No, I'm saying that translating a foreign language (which is what Anglo Saxon / Old English is) is a different issue to that of replacing words whose meaning has changed. In the first case the reader won't know what the words they are reading mean; in the second they may think they know what a word means, but that meaning may not the meaning that the author intended to convey.

They are of course both done to allow the reader to understand what he or she is reading, so they're certainly related.

[Cinisajoy]

On this topic, I just finished reading a book. "Please don't eat the Daisies" by Jean Kerr. The book was published in 1953. Today's younger generation (born after about 1975) would probably be snickering or wondering what the author meant a few times. There were at least 2 instances of the word gay. Neither were referring to the sexual orientation. They meant happy.

[HarryT]

Do you honestly think that there's anyone who doesn't know that "gay" means "happy"?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you honestly think that there's anyone who doesn't know that "gay" means "happy"?

Half my family lol. Ok in all fairness to that bunch, they might know but once the word changes meaning they would only read it as the new meaning. And then judge the book, movie, whatever as bad in their opinion.

[eschwartz]

Can I assume those members of your family wouldn't be likely to read such an old-fashoined book, and thus never encounter such an old-fashioned word?


I think it is fair to expect people to look at the date of publication. Or at least pick up on the date of the book's setting...

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Can I assume those members of your family wouldn't be likely to read such an old-fashoined book, and thus never encounter such an old-fashioned word?


I think it is fair to expect people to look at the date of publication. Or at least pick up on the date of the book's setting...

This bunch does read older books at times but let's just say their prejudices would not have them remember what the old fashioned word meant.
Though some are starting to be more accepting to a point.

[eschwartz]

How odd. What draws them to older books, yet pushes them away from imagining an older frame of reference?

[GrannyGrump]

Well, if anybody still cares, I added notes to the book AND to the download page. https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=263884
I also included the problem words in a spoiler, so if any downloader complains, they can't say they were not warned!

This has been an experience, I must say. I think I will be paranoid about children's books for a while...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

This has been an experience, I must say. I think I will be paranoid about children's books for a while...

Children's books are constantly being edited for precisely the reasons you've encountered. Society changes, and popular children's classics are edited to reflect those changes.

It really depends whether your goal is to release a book for children to read today, or a book that is a snapshot of an earlier time which may reflect attitudes and language that don't sit comfortably in modern society.

[GrannyGrump]

Well, Harry, I would have cheerfully have edited the wording, IF I could have thought of suitable substitutes in the second example I posted (see post # 15). But that one had me stonkered. My thesaurus failed me.

It's not too late, still. Would you have any suggestion for the three words highlighted in post # 15?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

Well, Harry, I would have cheerfully have edited the wording, IF I could have thought of suitable substitutes in the second example I posted (see post # 15). But that one had me stonkered. My thesaurus failed me.

It's not too late, still. Would you have any suggestion for the three words highlighted in post # 15?

I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions. Rewriting a pun is almost impossible. If you changed the words, you'd completely lose the existing sense of the passage, which is a pun on the similarity between "pecker" as in "spirit" and "peck" as in what a bird does with its beak.

[GrannyGrump]

Aw, shucks. But thank you for playing!