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Old 12-01-2023, 06:18 PM   #31
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No, Triton really is worse!
Oh I'm sure it was even worse, yes. But the quote about needing extremely bright light took me back ten years.

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Old 12-02-2023, 03:51 AM   #32
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You can get the general idea of Triton by turning off the backlight on a colour LCD panel! Though in fairness that's darker due having polarisers and no reflective layer. There are or were trans-reflective LCDs, My Nokia E65 was one. Maybe the OLPD for Africa used one.

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Old 12-02-2023, 03:46 PM   #33
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Noticed a few things.

Koreader has more muted colors (even with adjusting the variable.)

But the stock pocketbook one seems to fill in colors. Making grey almost purple and adding color where it shouldn't be. But it has great greens/blues comparitively.

It's interesting and hard to choose which provides the better experience. (Dithering is also better on koreader, not sure pocketbook default reader even does that.)
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Old 12-03-2023, 08:57 AM   #34
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@Fritomaster
What is colour / contrast shift like at more shallow viewing angles?


Color shifts on older LCDs are partially due to parallax error caused by glass thickness, due to mono pixels under glass and filter on top. Though LCDs have a second problem (ameliorated on newer designs) due to limited viewing angle on the polarisers. Unlike any other display (except DLP) the LCD pixels don't change in brightness or turn on/off at all. Instead the crystalline rods move due to electric field like a rotating polariser. That's why it has separate polarising layers so the light is passed or blocked by a pixel. Unlike the balls in eink cells the rods are not bistable so the LCD drive consumes power even with no backlight and a static image.
DLP pixels are nano-sized hinged mirrors. At one angle all the illuminating light (halogen, Xenon, LED, Laser) is reflected into the lens for peak white and the extreme other angle the light lands on a black coated heat sink. Colour is either by a spinning wheel with Red, Green, Blue and clear segments, or by using 3 DLP chips and dichroic combiners, with either a white light source split by dichroic prisms, or monochromatic red, green and blue LEDs/Lasers, or filtered white light.

Cameras can be single chip with a filter or three chips using dichroic blocks like DLP.

The very earliest experimental colour TV using CRTs on late 1940s & early 1950s (1924 was mechanical) used a R G B spinning wheel, or a drum. Then they figured how to do colour directly with coloured phosphor either using a shadowmask plate with holes (later wires & stripes on Trinitron) or stripes with detection of when the electrons at blue (1951, but not working economically till 1990s, beam indexing). By the time the Beam indexed colour CRT was viable the LCD was able to do colour TV.
Oldly LEDs and LCDs discovered at the start of the 20th C or end of 19th but not practical till 1960s (1962 LED, 1964 LCD).
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Old 12-03-2023, 09:54 AM   #35
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Cameras can be single chip with a filter or three chips using dichroic blocks like DLP.
Or four plumbicons, like the GE PE350.
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Old 12-03-2023, 10:46 AM   #36
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Or four plumbicons, like the GE PE350.
That's a while ago. Certainly no single tube colour camera was in use when I was in the BBC. All three tubes. I confess I didn't know there was a four tube model. I just found a home movie on VHS recorded in 1992 of us by someone else (I didn't have any such gear then) and while it's better than an late 1970 or early 1980 single tube vidicon or saticon, it's not much better. Savagely poor compared to off-air or pre-recorded tapes surviving in the same collection I received (though free from drop-out, jitter and head-switching noise band). Now, should I digitise using the composite in to Firewire of the Digital 8 camcorder (without recording, bridge mode), or play the S-VHS player into the TV and point Canon EOS70D in HD camcorder mode at it (in edit quality setting), or composite to HDMI adaptor box connected to the HD DVB-T modulator (used for PC to feed entire house) and record H.264 on to USB stick? Or do all three and compare quality.

Edit:
Of course I had to look it up
https://eyesofageneration.com/camera...969-here-is-a/
1969 was ages before I was in the BBC.

I do have a great card for video capture, video edit, CD-i video playing and video out in the attic. VGA pass through with hardware overlay. But ISA bus and Win 3.x drivers (I think it did work on Win98 later) and amazingly the actual NLE software (Adobe Premiere) worked on XP, though codecs were an issue.

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Old 12-03-2023, 01:01 PM   #37
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I did work on the GE PE350 back in the day.
Equipment then had a longer working life.
"Eh, it still works fine, why should we replace it?"
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Old 12-03-2023, 02:00 PM   #38
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I did work on the GE PE350 back in the day.
Equipment then had a longer working life.
"Eh, it still works fine, why should we replace it?"
No doubt big cable to separate rack mounted "control" unit that produced the actual video.
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Old 12-03-2023, 02:21 PM   #39
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No doubt big cable to separate rack mounted "control" unit that produced the actual video.
I actually loved that stuff!
The Norelco PC60 used two B&W cables to hook up a color camera.
The PC70 was more sophisticated and used one BIW TV-81 cable to hook up.
I made some cable ends once. The tolerances were pretty small.
It brings tears to my eyes to see this: https://www.tvcameramuseum.org/camer...iw-tv81-1.html
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Old 12-03-2023, 02:30 PM   #40
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@Fritomaster
What is colour / contrast shift like at more shallow viewing angles?


Color shifts on older LCDs are partially due to parallax error caused by glass thickness, due to mono pixels under glass and filter on top. Though LCDs have a second problem (ameliorated on newer designs) due to limited viewing angle on the polarisers. Unlike any other display (except DLP) the LCD pixels don't change in brightness or turn on/off at all. Instead the crystalline rods move due to electric field like a rotating polariser. That's why it has separate polarising layers so the light is passed or blocked by a pixel. Unlike the balls in eink cells the rods are not bistable so the LCD drive consumes power even with no backlight and a static image.
DLP pixels are nano-sized hinged mirrors. At one angle all the illuminating light (halogen, Xenon, LED, Laser) is reflected into the lens for peak white and the extreme other angle the light lands on a black coated heat sink. Colour is either by a spinning wheel with Red, Green, Blue and clear segments, or by using 3 DLP chips and dichroic combiners, with either a white light source split by dichroic prisms, or monochromatic red, green and blue LEDs/Lasers, or filtered white light.

Cameras can be single chip with a filter or three chips using dichroic blocks like DLP.

The very earliest experimental colour TV using CRTs on late 1940s & early 1950s (1924 was mechanical) used a R G B spinning wheel, or a drum. Then they figured how to do colour directly with coloured phosphor either using a shadowmask plate with holes (later wires & stripes on Trinitron) or stripes with detection of when the electrons at blue (1951, but not working economically till 1990s, beam indexing). By the time the Beam indexed colour CRT was viable the LCD was able to do colour TV.
Oldly LEDs and LCDs discovered at the start of the 20th C or end of 19th but not practical till 1960s (1962 LED, 1964 LCD).
Not seeing any at all and I'm at as hard of an angle as you can get.

https://imgur.com/a/LgxJhqx

Also cool to hear info about crts. I happen to have a nice little collection of pvms. TM-H150CG/20M4U and a few others.

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Old 12-03-2023, 04:48 PM   #41
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That's positive. Though a solved problem on decent LCDs.
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Old 12-03-2023, 04:51 PM   #42
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That's positive. Though a solved problem on decent LCDs.
Ya my only gripe is how dark it is and the less paper look compared to like a libra 2 or kindle.

If it was whiter/more paper looking I'd have 0 gripes outside of no sdcard.
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Old 12-03-2023, 04:52 PM   #43
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I actually loved that stuff!
The Norelco PC60 used two B&W cables to hook up a color camera.
The PC70 was more sophisticated and used one BIW TV-81 cable to hook up.
I made some cable ends once. The tolerances were pretty small.
It brings tears to my eyes to see this: https://www.tvcameramuseum.org/camer...iw-tv81-1.html

Ever put on a 50 way cable (or similar) and discovered the cover shell across the floor and not already on the cable?
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Old 12-03-2023, 06:16 PM   #44
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Ever put on a 50 way cable (or similar) and discovered the cover shell across the floor and not already on the cable?
Just enough times that I don't forget any more.

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Also cool to hear info about crts. I happen to have a nice little collection of pvms. TM-H150CG/20M4U and a few others.
My first graphic display was a homebrew video card feeding a Conrac SNA 9" monochrome monitor. The video bandwidth was 10 MHz.
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Old 12-04-2023, 02:34 AM   #45
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Mine came into day.
Hoy does it manage zoom, is it fast enough? I fear reading magazines like Scientific American, where you have to zoom to images frequently in order to understand the text, will be still very slow
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