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Old Yesterday, 05:07 PM   #166
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I think you need to learn your history. I don't have time to go into all of it. But I can tell you the Ed Sullivan Show started airing in the 1940s. So did Howdy Doody.

Also, you are confusing networks and their rules with radio/television. They aren't the same thing. There is no law saying there has to be so many commercials an hour, or any commercials whatsoever.
Thanks for the info.
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Old Yesterday, 05:26 PM   #167
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In the early TV shows and in the radio shows before them ads were often included within the storyline of the show itself. This was especially true of comedy shows where a friend would drop by and start telling the characters about a new product he'd discovered (which he also had discovered last week) .

The FCC ceased to allow that in the late 1950s, I think. They began requiring that the show break for a commercial and that it not be embedded as part of the story.

Barry
Thank you and I love you.
I am assuming you mean something like this:
Hey Barry, I was doing the dishes last week and my husband brought home Dawn instead of that other brand. It works so much better.
*while not actually a plug for Dawn, it does work much better than the store brand that is imitating it.

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Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM   #168
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What does the law have to do with it?
When you said "According to the queen of Television, they had to do so many mentions of a product an hour. Martin & Lewis were sponsored by Colgate" that was a network directive. Not a law.

Radio and television did not start with the intention of being a home for networks to run programming peppered with ads. That is just the way things shook out.

The internet isn't that way yet, but it is clearly on its way. And the repeal of net neutrality just helped grease the skids.
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Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by ZodWallop View Post
When you said "According to the queen of Television, they had to do so many mentions of a product an hour. Martin & Lewis were sponsored by Colgate" that was a network directive. Not a law.

Radio and television did not start with the intention of being a home for networks to run programming peppered with ads. That is just the way things shook out.

The internet isn't that way yet, but it is clearly on its way. And the repeal of net neutrality just helped grease the skids.
Well it is true that Radio didn't start with ads, TV always had ads unless it was closed circuit. Networks have taken over many radio stations and were first in line for TV. Networks have always depended on advertising unless it is pay per view. Creeping up from 7 minutes per hour to 15 and even sometimes 17 minutes now. Even PBS has advertising these days.

The Internet is unique in that individuals can still have web sites but for any professional site it will have advertising and annoying get in your face type these days.

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Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM   #170
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Well it is true that Radio didn't start with ads, TV always had ads unless it was closed circuit. Networks have taken over many radio stations and were first in line for TV. Networks have always depended on advertising unless it is pay per view. Creeping up from 7 minutes per hour to 15 and even sometimes 17 minutes now. Even PBS has advertising these days.

The Internet is unique in that individuals can still have web sites but for any professional site it will have advertising and annoying get in your face type these days.

Dale
I'm just quibbling to pass the time, I know. But it would be more accurate to say "network TV always had ads" and that's because the networks mainly replicated their radio business model on TV.

But as I've been saying "network TV" and "network radio" aren't synonymous with the mediums of TV and radio. There's public access and public broadcasting. Though I agree that they have been taken over by commercial interests. It wasn't always that way.
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Old Yesterday, 09:49 PM   #171
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Well it is true that Radio didn't start with ads, TV always had ads unless it was closed circuit. Networks have taken over many radio stations and were first in line for TV. Networks have always depended on advertising unless it is pay per view. Creeping up from 7 minutes per hour to 15 and even sometimes 17 minutes now. Even PBS has advertising these days.

The Internet is unique in that individuals can still have web sites but for any professional site it will have advertising and annoying get in your face type these days.

Dale
Dale,
Your math is slightly off. On the broadcast channels, some dramas have up to 21 minutes of ads per hour. I think history channel is at least 22 minutes on their shows like Vikings.
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM   #172
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I'm just quibbling to pass the time, I know. But it would be more accurate to say "network TV always had ads" and that's because the networks mainly replicated their radio business model on TV.

But as I've been saying "network TV" and "network radio" aren't synonymous with the mediums of TV and radio. There's public access and public broadcasting. Though I agree that they have been taken over by commercial interests. It wasn't always that way.
Even PBS mentions the sponsors either at the beginning or ending of the show.
This show is sponsored by the letter E. (That was in 1969). Ok so wasn't a real ad but got children used to sponsored.
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Old Yesterday, 10:02 PM   #173
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Dale,
Your math is slightly off. On the broadcast channels, some dramas have up to 21 minutes of ads per hour. I think history channel is at least 22 minutes on their shows like Vikings.
Interesting for that channel. I am used to getting a show in 45 minutes after I skip through all of the commercials. It is rare when I cannot do that which gives me 4 hours of shows in 3 hours but I don't do the history channel very often. Mostly it is major networks ABC, NBC, CBS and a half dozen or so cable channels. My math is pretty good I think but the numbers are creeping up, and I do notice the history channel is worse. I also noticed that the popular shows tend to run an hour and 1 or 2 minutes with the extra time used by commercials but then the next show is a bit short. I know it is way up from when I was a kid and shows only had 7 minutes per hour.

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Old Yesterday, 10:14 PM   #174
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Interesting for that channel. I am used to getting a show in 45 minutes after I skip through all of the commercials. It is rare when I cannot do that which gives me 4 hours of shows in 3 hours but I don't do the history channel very often. Mostly it is major networks ABC, NBC, CBS and a half dozen or so cable channels. My math is pretty good I think but the numbers are creeping up, and I do notice the history channel is worse. I also noticed that the popular shows tend to run an hour and 1 or 2 minutes with the extra time used by commercials but then the next show is a bit short. I know it is way up from when I was a kid and shows only had 7 minutes per hour.

Dale
The last season of NCIS we bought, each show was about 39 minutes.
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Old Yesterday, 11:48 PM   #175
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Every few months I think about buying a MS Surface, but so far I've always talked myself out of it - "maybe next year, but not now".

Based on your experience with the 2-in-1, I'm interested to know whether the Surface still appeals to you or have you now gone off the whole idea of a super-tablet?
The 2-in-1 makes for a fine laptop and there are times I'll be glad I can fold the keyboard back and use it that way, but not enough to really matter.

I wanted something for drawing and the laptop with the keyboard folded back and propped up on my lap for drawing, which is how I like to draw with my tablet, is just too awkward to be fun. It's entirely doable and I have done it a few times with decent results, but it's just not fun and I draw for fun.

For everything else the device is just fine.

I do most of my drawing now on a 10" Samsung Galaxy Tab A with S Pen and that works fine. I probably should have just stuck with that for drawing.

I should mention that another part of my disappointment is that I found I really prefer the Android apps for drawing after all. I hadn't expected that. Still, I think if I had a Surface I'd like the Windows apps more than I do.

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Old Yesterday, 11:53 PM   #176
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Thank you and I love you.
I am assuming you mean something like this:
Hey Barry, I was doing the dishes last week and my husband brought home Dawn instead of that other brand. It works so much better.
*while not actually a plug for Dawn, it does work much better than the store brand that is imitating it.
Well, sort of. There was never a statement that it wasn't a plug for Dawn and in most cases it was obvious that it was a commercial. The guy would come in and talk about the product and everyone would egg him on and ask him questions and nobody was fooled. Nor was there any attempt to fool anyone.

Archive.org has a lot of these old radio shows, some of which are very good and fun to listen to. Try listening to some Jack Benny shows or some Burns and Allen shows and you'll see what I mean. Both of those also had TV shows after their radio days and they did those commercials the same way. Those are also on archive.org and also on youtube.

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Old Yesterday, 11:58 PM   #177
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The Internet is unique in that individuals can still have web sites but for any professional site it will have advertising and annoying get in your face type these days.
That's somewhat true of radio still. Pacifica stations usually will let anyone who has a good idea for a broadcast do so. They're strictly non-commercial. I'm assuming this is still true because I haven't heard that it's changed. A friend of mine founded and used to manage a Pacifica station in Houston but we've been out of touch a few years.

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Old Today, 12:03 AM   #178
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Interesting for that channel. I am used to getting a show in 45 minutes after I skip through all of the commercials. It is rare when I cannot do that which gives me 4 hours of shows in 3 hours but I don't do the history channel very often. Mostly it is major networks ABC, NBC, CBS and a half dozen or so cable channels. My math is pretty good I think but the numbers are creeping up, and I do notice the history channel is worse. I also noticed that the popular shows tend to run an hour and 1 or 2 minutes with the extra time used by commercials but then the next show is a bit short. I know it is way up from when I was a kid and shows only had 7 minutes per hour.
I haven't owned a TV in well over a decade so when I see a show I see it at it's non-commercial length. I watch some new shows and a lot of very old shows and the difference soon becomes obvious. A typical new show is 41 or 42 minutes long. Go back 20 years and they're 45 to 48 minutes long. Go back another 20 years and they're 51 to 54 minutes long.

You can test this easily by watching shows from those periods on Amazon or Netflix or Youtube or archive.org for older shows.

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Old Today, 12:30 AM   #179
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Well, sort of. There was never a statement that it wasn't a plug for Dawn and in most cases it was obvious that it was a commercial. The guy would come in and talk about the product and everyone would egg him on and ask him questions and nobody was fooled. Nor was there any attempt to fool anyone.

Archive.org has a lot of these old radio shows, some of which are very good and fun to listen to. Try listening to some Jack Benny shows or some Burns and Allen shows and you'll see what I mean. Both of those also had TV shows after their radio days and they did those commercials the same way. Those are also on archive.org and also on youtube.

Barry
On my comment, I was thinking the younger generations wouldn't catch they were advertisements and not just characters talking. Oh yes, if you watch the older shows after about the second one you catch on to the subtle ads. Except if I remember the old game shows right the dish soap of the day was Palmolive not Dawn.

Oh and I will be so glad when I run out of the dish soap pretending to be Dawn so I can go back to the good stuff.

Thanks it would also be fun to see how many of those companies are still around.

So I must ask since you don't have a TV, note I was around when my grandparents got their first TV, what do use to watch the old shows?
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Old Today, 02:40 AM   #180
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I remember we got our first TV when we moved to NY in late 1952. There certainly were ads on TV, most live and subject to a few errors on occasion. I remember a commercial for Melmac plastic dishes. The guy dumped a table full off the table while saying it was unbreakable and right on TV one piece broke when it hit the floor! Also advertisements from discount furniture stores were common. A room full of furniture for $69. Talk about inflation since.

By late 1952 in NY all TV shows had advertising of some sort just like there had been advertising on network radio shows since at least the early 1930s.

As far as internet and TV advertising, I buy virtually NOTHING based on advertising. If I buy something based on an emailed ad it is because I have bought from the advertiser before. I run a pop-up blocker too so see relatively few internet ads and mute the TV ones. Most of mine are received via email. If Yahoo and Facebook depended on me for response to ads they would both be bankrupt.

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