Artemis

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Free Serif is even a terrible font for an LCD display. It's too light and too thin. On eInk it's even worse.

All I hear is blah, blah, blah.

The fonts look fine to me. I didn't even know there WERE any fonts embedded until you mentioned it. They still look fine to me know that I do know.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

All I hear is blah, blah, blah.

The fonts look fine to me. I didn't even know there WERE any fonts embedded until you mentioned it. They still look fine to me know that I do know.

Though the Wolf has a habit of stating his opinions as facts, to give him credit, he did say why he doesn't like Free Serif. "It's too light and too thin (on an LCD display). On eInk it's even worse."

I could see griping about default fonts if they prevent/distract you from reading the book.

I am going to install Free Serif on my Kobo just to check it out.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

to give him credit, he did say why he doesn't like Free Serif. "It's too light and too thin (on an LCD display). On eInk it's even worse."

That's the part that sounded like "blah, blah, blah" to me.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I could see griping about default fonts if they prevent/distract you from reading the book.

I've never encountered a professionally prepared book (E or P) in all of my life that used a font that prevented/distracted me from reading it.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I am going to install Free Serif on my Kobo just to check it out.

It will probably be fine sideloaded on your Kobo because you'll be able to add enough weight for it to be easier to read.

FWIW reading it as an embedded publisher's font is far too light for me to read it comfortably.

I can see why it might be popular as a publisher font, though. Apart from the obvious fact that's it's free, it also supports a large number of language unicode ranges.

[Deskisamess]

I have no issue with sans serif fonts when on a web site, but I won't read a book using a sans serif font, if I can help it.

[BenG]

I used to read sans-serif on my palm pilot. Serif just wasn't as easy to read on the low resolution screens.

What you're used to is a big part of it. I may not like an unfamiliar font to begin with but once I start reading I forget about the font after a few minutes.

That said, I have a 6 hour drive coming up Wednesday (and another on Sunday) so I may just bypass the fonts altogether and buy the audiobook.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

It will probably be fine sideloaded on your Kobo because you'll be able to add enough weight for it to be easier to read.

FWIW reading it as an embedded publisher's font is far too light for me to read it comfortably.

I can see why it might be popular as a publisher font, though. Apart from the obvious fact that's it's free, it also supports a large number of language unicode ranges.

Charis SIL is free and a better font for eInk. Still not perfect as is, but better.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

It will probably be fine sideloaded on your Kobo because you'll be able to add enough weight for it to be easier to read.

FWIW reading it as an embedded publisher's font is far too light for me to read it comfortably.

I can see why it might be popular as a publisher font, though. Apart from the obvious fact that's it's free, it also supports a large number of language unicode ranges.

I tried reading with Free Serif, only adjusting size, not weight and I have to say, I wasn't a fan. It was too thin. I think it's a pretty font, but I switched back to my favorite, Noto Serif PDQ.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Charis SIL is free and a better font for eInk. Still not perfect as is, but better.

But not if you're trying to read Andy Weir's book in a language other than English (or other Western European language). I expect the Publisher is hoping for a new worldwide blockbuster, so picking a font which supports many more languages makes their life easier.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

But not if you're trying to read Andy Weir's book in a language other than English (or other Western European language). I expect the Publisher is hoping for a new worldwide blockbuster, so picking a font which supports many more languages makes their life easier.

That's not possible. You forget georestrictions and in different countries, different publishers are going to make their own eBook editions.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

All I hear is blah, blah, blah.

The fonts look fine to me. I didn't even know there WERE any fonts embedded until you mentioned it. They still look fine to me know that I do know.

Doug, you know that I love ya better than my luggage, but...on a Kindle eInk, that font is not lovely, to my eyes. I put it on my latest and greatest Kindle, a Voyage, and while it's not AWWWWFUL (or offal!), it's far from great. When I look at this, what I see is eyestrain, after a few hours. Simply because it seems to have issues with kerning (not kerning pairs); the l/c r's seem to kern too tightly to the letters on both sides of it, ditto the l/c n, etc. In fact, if I didn't know better, I would guess that this was a serif Compressed font, due to the tightness between the letters. (AND, while I'm at it, the resulting rivers. It's actually distracting me, in looking at it--all those words, kerned tightly, and then rivers. Gadzooks!)

Most folks who don't mess with fonts for a living (or a rabid hobby, like {mumble}) don't realize that a lot of what "happens" surrounding fonts isn't perceived by the eyeball, really. It's not whether you see it and have a visceral reaction; "oooh, I love that," or "Ewwww, I hate that."

Instead, it's something that happens back in the primordial bits. Anyway, if I had to read this particular font, I truly think that my eyes would start to hurt (or I'd get a headache, or I'd think that I was "tired" because I was rubbing my eyes, they felt heavy, etc.) after a bit of time.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's the part that sounded like "blah, blah, blah" to me.

Suhweeeetie! I know that our curmudgeon, Jon, can certainly beat the cr*p out of a dead horse, but...

I've never encountered a professionally prepared book (E or P) in all of my life that used a font that prevented/distracted me from reading it.

Oh...I've seen a few. NOT as many as Wolfie, admittedly, but I fear I've seen a handful.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I tried reading with Free Serif, only adjusting size, not weight and I have to say, I wasn't a fan. It was too thin. I think it's a pretty font, but I switched back to my favorite, Noto Serif PDQ.

The one that's in the Kindle version of TM is weird, as I mentioned, above. Pretty in fonts is like pretty in people: pretty is as pretty does. I'm actually going to try reading this, in the original K version, and see what I think after a period of actual exposure, rather than my kneejerk reaction.

Originally Posted by jackie_w

But not if you're trying to read Andy Weir's book in a language other than English (or other Western European language). I expect the Publisher is hoping for a new worldwide blockbuster, so picking a font which supports many more languages makes their life easier.

Well....they'd have to redo it to accommodate different countries, anyway, but while they COULD use this as a base for those other versions, there are other fonts that are widely, widely used in numerous languages (Garamond, anyone?), so I would argue against that reasoning. It could have played into their thinking, but if so, they screwed the pooch in picking this one over any number of other multi-languagee options.

And, to wrap:

IN MY OPINION, only.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Hitch, in your professional opinion, what fonts for serif, sans-serif, and monospace do you like for embedding for viewing on an eInk screen that are free?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Suhweeeetie! I know that our curmudgeon, Jon, can certainly beat the cr*p out of a dead horse, but...

"Too skinny" and "too light" are gateway font descriptions. Before you know it, people are into the heavy font stuff like: ascenders, descenders, ligatures and kerning--oh, my! At that point all I hear is that Peanuts adult trombone voice and my eyes glaze over.

Like I said: I had no idea there was anything different about the fonts in this book until this thread. What can I say? I don't know my serif (visually) from a hole in the ground. I just don't notice those subtle things. No eyestrain. No distraction. I read commercial books I buy with the fonts that appear (I rarely know if the fonts are from the book or the reader/app). Same speed, same way, same obliviousness. All fonts all books. I actually consider myself quite lucky that way. One less thing to stress over.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Too skinny" and "too light" are gateway font descriptions. Before you know it, people are into the heavy font stuff like: ascenders, descenders, ligatures and kerning--oh, my! At that point all I hear is that Peanuts adult trombone voice and my eyes glaze over.

Hell, I get that trombone about a lot of things. No explanation needed.

Like I said: I had no idea there was anything different about the fonts in this book until this thread. What can I say? I don't know my serif (visually) from a hole in the ground. I just don't notice those subtle things. No eyestrain. No distraction. I read commercial books I buy with the fonts that appear (I rarely know if the fonts are from the book or the reader/app). Same speed, same way, same obliviousness. All fonts all books. I actually consider myself quite lucky that way. One less thing to stress over.

If it doesn't bother your eyes, or make your eyes feel tired, etc. then you should ignore it. Seriously.

But typically, a "bad" font like that (I'm not trying to be subjective; I'm looking at it objectively, in terms of all those pesky trombone reasons) will literally cause you to develop headaches, swimming eyes, etc. It has to do with signals that the eye sends to the brain.

(That's also tied to line-length, too. If a line is too short, your brain sends a "flick" along with your eyeball's flick, to your brain. If the line's too short, your noggin starts to feel irritable, antsy. If it's too long, you start to feel bored with the story, sleepy-ish, even.)

Text that doesn't flow smoothly can also cause this same sort of eye-brain chemical interaction.

Just out of curiosity--and forgive me for not paying attention--are you sure that you are seeing the Free Serif, and not some other default font, on your device? I realize that I'm talking with you, and you'd know, but you have mentioned that you don't pay attention to fonts. Does your device always display the fonts that are embedded?

Hitch

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Hitch

If it doesn't bother your eyes, or make your eyes feel tired, etc. then you should ignore it. Seriously.

That's certainly where I'm at. I simply don't get the fuss.

Originally Posted by Hitch

But typically, a "bad" font like that (I'm not trying to be subjective; I'm looking at it objectively, in terms of all those pesky trombone reasons) will literally cause you to develop headaches, swimming eyes, etc. It has to do with signals that the eye sends to the brain.

I havent had a headache, for any reason, in years (unless sinus infections count).

Originally Posted by Hitch

(That's also tied to line-length, too. If a line is too short, your brain sends a "flick" along with your eyeball's flick, to your brain. If the line's too short, your noggin starts to feel irritable, antsy. If it's too long, you start to feel bored with the story, sleepy-ish, even.)

Can't say that I've ever noticed that effect. Don't get me wrong, some stories DO bore me. But that's typically because they're boring stories.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Just out of curiosity--and forgive me for not paying attention--are you sure that you are seeing the Free Serif, and not some other default font, on your device? I realize that I'm talking with you, and you'd know, but you have mentioned that you don't pay attention to fonts. Does your device always display the fonts that are embedded?

Yes. My Bookari app is set to default font settings, which will display embedded fonts if present. I'm reading this book with the Kobo app and the fonts are set to publisher defaults.

I'm not the type who attempts to "homogenize" my reading experience. I like a little typographic variety. So I don't do a lot of overriding. I want to see what you guys and gals who create ebooks intended me to see. I just jack up the font-size and get to it.