Thriller cover feedback?

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Personally, I don't like "real people" on book covers. An artist's rendering is one thing, but pictures of real people always remind me of book covers that use movie/televison tie-ins, which I despise.

The man in this cover isn't scary, he just looks like a grumpy constipated Brando wanna-be. The girl looks pensive, not scared.

Thanks Desk. Yeah, it's like 50/50 as far as I can tell with people either hating or loving people on the cover. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAHR7_VZdRw

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

Thanks Desk. Yeah, it's like 50/50 as far as I can tell with people either hating or loving people on the cover. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAHR7_VZdRw

I read somewhere, a long while ago now: to sell a book in the U.S. you have to put a person on the cover, elsewhere you can be more creative.

I don't know where the idea originated, but whatever the source I have seen quite a bit of apparent confirmation over the years. I remember particularly noticing the appalling U.S. covers to The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson, compared to the stylish U.K. covers; over the years I've been so glad that Australia mostly gets U.K publications.

Mind you, it is getting much more difficult to tell with traditionally published books. So many use generic clipart from various 'net sources - cobbled together professionally, of course, but still looking extremely generic, an "any book will do" solution - that the difference is becoming more subtle (see the latest U.S. vs U.K. editions of Robert Goddard's books for example) ... but the difference is still there.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by gmw

I read somewhere, a long while ago now: to sell a book in the U.S. you have to put a person on the cover, elsewhere you can be more creative.

I don't know where the idea originated, but whatever the source I have seen quite a bit of apparent confirmation over the years. I remember particularly noticing the appalling U.S. covers to The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson, compared to the stylish U.K. covers; over the years I've been so glad that Australia mostly gets U.K publications.

Mind you, it is getting much more difficult to tell with traditionally published books. So many use generic clipart from various 'net sources - cobbled together professionally, of course, but still looking extremely generic, an "any book will do" solution - that the difference is becoming more subtle (see the latest U.S. vs U.K. editions of Robert Goddard's books for example) ... but the difference is still there.

Agree. You look at thrillers and they all have some neon kind of coloring and either a guy with a handgun or a couple running or crosshairs. Or sci-fi--all these spaceships just dodging meteorites and lasers. It's like visual tropes.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by gmw

I read somewhere, a long while ago now: to sell a book in the U.S. you have to put a person on the cover, elsewhere you can be more creative.

I don't know where the idea originated, but whatever the source I have seen quite a bit of apparent confirmation over the years. I remember particularly noticing the appalling U.S. covers to The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson, compared to the stylish U.K. covers; over the years I've been so glad that Australia mostly gets U.K publications.

Mind you, it is getting much more difficult to tell with traditionally published books. So many use generic clipart from various 'net sources - cobbled together professionally, of course, but still looking extremely generic, an "any book will do" solution - that the difference is becoming more subtle (see the latest U.S. vs U.K. editions of Robert Goddard's books for example) ... but the difference is still there.

Well, I don't give a crap if it's the US, UK, AUS, etc., but...I think that if you put FUGLY people on the cover, you have real issues. I said this to you on the KDP forum--they're unpleasant and repellent. Why the hell do you think that people will click on that?

I've said this before, at Cover Critics (where I've suggested that you take this): your cover is clickbait. Period. That's its entire job. I just don't see people clicking on this sucker.

Seriously, take it to CoverCritics.com. Get feedback there.

Hitch

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well, I don't give a crap if it's the US, UK, AUS, etc., but...I think that if you put FUGLY people on the cover, you have real issues. I said this to you on the KDP forum--they're unpleasant and repellent. Why the hell do you think that people will click on that?

I've said this before, at Cover Critics (where I've suggested that you take this): your cover is clickbait. Period. That's its entire job. I just don't see people clicking on this sucker.

Seriously, take it to CoverCritics.com. Get feedback there.

Hitch

They would eat that cover alive.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Hitch

[...]I've said this before, at Cover Critics (where I've suggested that you take this): your cover is clickbait. Period. That's its entire job.[...]

I do not disagree with you. But as has been seen on the forum before now, I am not an entirely reasonable person (not sure I've met anyone who is). I want to like the cover too! (I don't mean that in the sense of "it's pretty", but in the sense that I think it looks good and suits the book.) It's not that the two (clickbait and like) are mutually exclusive, but it does mean a level of difficulty beyond simple clickbait.

[JSWolf]

Thing is, if I saw this cover in a search result and I did not know the author, I would simply pass it by.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by gmw

I do not disagree with you. But as has been seen on the forum before now, I am not an entirely reasonable person (not sure I've met anyone who is). I want to like the cover too! (I don't mean that in the sense of "it's pretty", but in the sense that I think it looks good and suits the book.) It's not that the two (clickbait and like) are mutually exclusive, but it does mean a level of difficulty beyond simple clickbait.

I don't disagree with you, but putting ugly, repellent people on the cover is IMHO not the way to go about it. I mean...let's be realistic. Approximately 1% of the population--at most--is actually beautiful. I don't mean pretty or attractive, etc., I mean, inarguably beautiful. That symmetry, etc., that creates that sort of "stops traffic" beauty (Charlize Theron, Liz Taylor...that level of stunning physical perfection). So, covers don't need to have that sort of beauty on them (although cover designers and deluded authors insist on trying to foist "perfect" people on us for romances. I'd have thought that the average romance reader would find it more satisfying if the average girl gets the Billionaire, but, then, whadda I know?

However, there's a large-enough swath of "attractive" people. Attractive people routinely out-earn unattractive or plain people, by 15% or so. Teachers call on cute kids. It's just The Way It Is. Any idiot can google the realities of how being attractive gives people an advantage in life, right? So...you're deliberately turning your back on that advantage, for your cover, why?

So why the hell, with all kinds of scientifically-proven biases, toward attractive people, do you want to put repellent people on your cover?

Seriously, Gregg--I'm not interested in what so-and-so told you, or some family member said about how they "liked" this cover. What is going through your head, to put these people on the cover? What's your thought process, given that you can EASILY find attractive replacements? I know it's not because they look like your existing characters; you expressly said at the KDP that you'd described the characters, in the book, to look like these models (or whatever they are). You're obviously very invested in these two, but...why? Why in hell are you? I am seriously boggled by this.

Don't know why I care, but I guess it's because it's so bizarre.

Lastly: of course there are cover tropes. Just like anything else--people want an instant visual cue so that they know that the cover they're looking at is in the genre that they want. It's not merely a trope; it's an important visual cue, for the buyer. One of the first things a cover designer learns is to use that trope to their advantage--not to disregard it.

Man, it's like you are deliberately trying to swim uphill, isn't it?

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I'd have thought that the average romance reader would find it more satisfying if the average girl gets the Billionaire, but, then, whadda I know?

So let's put real people on the cover such as Bill gates for the billionaire. We can have Bill bare chested.

Helping the Windows User...The story of a female Windows user who finds Bill Gates private line and calls asking for help with Windows. They end up on Skype and it goes from there.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So let's put real people on the cover such as Bill gates for the billionaire. We can have Bill bare chested.

Helping the Windows User...The story of a female Windows user who finds Bill Gates private line and calls asking for help with Windows. They end up on Skype and it goes from there.

I'm thinking that the title for your book should be: Defenestration, although that might give away the ending.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by gmw

I'm thinking that the title for your book should be: Defenestration, although that might give away the ending.

Oh, grooooooooooooooan.


Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

Putting "ugly, repellent" people on ANY cover is dangerous because those people belong to SOMEONE and are related to SOMEONE.

Let us just hope the man is not the author's father/brother/grandfather/cousin/friend and the woman is not the author's wife/sister/girlfriend/niece/friend.

That would, of course, be most embarrassing.

Most embarrassing, indeed.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Putting "ugly, repellent" people on ANY cover is dangerous because those people belong to SOMEONE and are related to SOMEONE.

Let us just hope the man is not the author's father/brother/grandfather/cousin/friend and the woman is not the author's wife/sister/girlfriend/niece/friend.

That would, of course, be most embarrassing.

Most embarrassing, indeed.

Dr. Drib:

Indeed--the thought occurred to me. But who puts a family member on the cover of a book, that's a murderer? I mean, portraying a murderer? And if Gregg did this and didn't think to say, "oh, yeah, those are family members..." how could anyone be expected to infer that? I'm far from the first to mention that they're unattractive--he posted this at the KDP, too, as I mentioned previously.

I'm simply a bit boggled at the whole idea, that's all. I mean...he was told that they weren't attractive, previously, and that by and large people didn't care for the cover. How many times do you have to get hit in the head before you know it hurts?

Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

^ Which one is the face of a murderer?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Dr. Drib:

Indeed--the thought occurred to me. But who puts a family member on the cover of a book, that's a murderer? I mean, portraying a murderer? And if Gregg did this and didn't think to say, "oh, yeah, those are family members..." how could anyone be expected to infer that? I'm far from the first to mention that they're unattractive--he posted this at the KDP, too, as I mentioned previously.

I'm simply a bit boggled at the whole idea, that's all. I mean...he was told that they weren't attractive, previously, and that by and large people didn't care for the cover. How many times do you have to get hit in the head before you know it hurts?

Hitch

103.1.