Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > Miscellaneous > Lounge

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-17-2010, 07:58 AM   #1
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 71,406
Karma: 305065800
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage
Why Tau is better than Pi

I can across an interesting idea today. Put simply, the idea is that the ratio for relating the size of a circle to its circumference has been badly chosen.

That is to say, Pi (π), the ratio of the Circumferences to the Diameter of a circle is an awkward choice.

The argument goes that using the ratio of the Circumference to the Radius instead would make many things simpler and more obvious. The proposed symbol for this is Tau (τ).

All is explained at the Tau Day website. http://www.tauday.com/

I found it very persuasive. What do others think?
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 08:39 AM   #2
dsvick
Wizard
dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dsvick ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
dsvick's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,737
Karma: 635747
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA
Device: PRS-900
I didn't read the entire article in detail, it's been a few years since I've done math at those levels, but it makes sense to me and I have to agree on a few of the points. I agree that using the radius is more intuitive than the diameter, you very rarely hear someone referring to the diameter of a circle.

My problem with it though is that "pie are square(d)" rolls off the tongue much more easily than "two tau are square(d)"
dsvick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 08:41 AM   #3
poohbear_nc
Now what?
poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.poohbear_nc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
poohbear_nc's Avatar
 
Posts: 58,565
Karma: 134882998
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Durham, NC
Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!
tau for two and two for tau,
mu for ...

sorry - couldn't resist!
poohbear_nc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 08:46 AM   #4
Sparrow
Wizard
Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
I'm afraid I had to respectfully decline the author's kind invitation to "consider integrals over all angles in polar coordinates", because I have no idea what he's going on about.
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 09:45 AM   #5
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 71,406
Karma: 305065800
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsvick View Post
I didn't read the entire article in detail, it's been a few years since I've done math at those levels, but it makes sense to me and I have to agree on a few of the points. I agree that using the radius is more intuitive than the diameter, you very rarely hear someone referring to the diameter of a circle.

My problem with it though is that "pie are square(d)" rolls off the tongue much more easily than "two tau are square(d)"
Umm... the area of a circle is one half tau are squared. (½τr²) And the circumference is tau are. (τr)

‘Tau are’ is simpler than ‘two pi are’. Of course, we could also say ‘pi dee’ but then for consistency we ought to use ‘one quarter pi dee squared'. Ugh...

The ½τr² is also exactly analogous with lots of other equations that deal with the integration of an equation with a constant of proportionality.

The link gives the example of objects falling in a uniform gravitational field. (i.e. on Earth, to a close approximation).

The speed of dropped item is directly proportional to the time it has been falling (neglecting air resistance and changes in the gravity field).

v = gt

The distance fallen is the integral of this: d = ½gt²



I must admit that the more I consider this, the more pleased I am with it.

Although I would hold out for tau day to be celebrated on the 6th of February, not the 28th of June!

And celebrations ought, of course, to reach a climax at exactly 53 seconds past 3:33 pm (or am if you're on night shifts). Because, of course, the ratio 333/53 approximates tau to three decimal places.

Alternatively we could have an ‘approximate tau lunch’ on 7th October, at 1:13 pm, since 710/133 is tau to six decimal places.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 10:31 AM   #6
MJK2111
FUBAR!
MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MJK2111 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
MJK2111's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,946
Karma: 15018767
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Woodstock, IL
Device: Kindle 3, Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 S
I like popcorn.
MJK2111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 11:58 AM   #7
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 71,406
Karma: 305065800
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
Although I would hold out for tau day to be celebrated on the 6th of February, not the 28th of June!

And celebrations ought, of course, to reach a climax at exactly 53 seconds past 3:33 pm (or am if you're on night shifts). Because, of course, the ratio 333/53 approximates tau to three decimal places.
On second thoughts, perhaps celebrations ought to include something special in the 22 minutes between 8:31 and 8:53, seeing as τ is 6.2 831 853....
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 01:17 PM   #8
Fat Abe
Man Who Stares at Books
Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Fat Abe's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,816
Karma: 10606722
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 50th State, USA. Also, PA, NY, CA, and elsewhere.
Device: All of the Above
I disagree most vehemently with the concept of Tau day. First, I am too old to learn new math. Second, Pi makes sense to the elders. Consider a hat maker or brassiere seamstress. How do they set the diameter of a hat or bra? They take a tape measure and wrap it around the object of interest. With a single factor (1/Pi), they take that circumference and turn it into a diameter. Of course, I am so learned that I can just look at/feel a breast and tell you the correct cup size. (It is a complex process, involving volumetric estimation, and my sensitive hand). Lastly, why give up another Greek letter for a constant that is already been spoken for? I want to reserve Tau for a constant of nature that I may discover, such as the perfect shape of a breast (in 3D), or the dimension of the universe.
Fat Abe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 02:52 PM   #9
CleverClothe
Guru
CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 618
Karma: 493394
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Device: iRex iLiad, Onyx Boox 60
Fat Abe makes a very persuasive argument...
CleverClothe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 04:04 PM   #10
alecE
Evangelist
alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alecE ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
alecE's Avatar
 
Posts: 412
Karma: 546196
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK canal boat
Device: sony prs505, prs650, kobo Glo HD liseuses
An entertaining article! Given that there is a simple conversion between pi & tau, one can just use whichever is most convenient for the purpose in hand. I like the more sensible radian measures of fractions of a circle and the pleasing conformity with other integration equations - I shall have to try running a few calculations in parallel and see how the tau versions 'feel'.
alecE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 04:16 AM   #11
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,058
Karma: 7676767
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
What the f***, I haven't got used to decimal currency yet, and you want to start messing with pi. No way.
TGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 09:37 PM   #12
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
e is the best.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 09:38 PM   #13
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by poohbear_nc View Post
tau for two and two for tau,
mu for ...

sorry - couldn't resist!
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 12:45 AM   #14
dapriuk
Enthusiast
dapriuk doesn't litterdapriuk doesn't litter
 
Posts: 48
Karma: 160
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Device: Sony PRS-505, Lenovo X61 tablet PC, Advent Vega Android tablet
ask me taumorrow
dapriuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 03:15 AM   #15
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 71,406
Karma: 305065800
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
e is the best.
e[SUP][/SUP] = 1

Oh — no superscript BB code
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.