Recommendation - Maintain updated list of depreciated plugins

azteech · 07-09-2012, 02:06 PM

Hello,

While I find there is a list of Deprecated/Renamed/Retired Plugins, available in the Index of plugins, it doesn't have all the plugins listed where one can revert back if need be.

Request the list be updated so it lists at least the last depreciated plugin file, along with a download location, or a separate sticky be made which does this.

Example of such is the "Quality Check" plugin - it was recently updated to 1.9.2, with requirement of Calibre 0.8.59. Not being able to successfully run 0.8.59 I unfortunately had to revert back to 0.8.58 (as noted here Calibre hangs when adding a book file and in the bug report here https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/1022019).

However, reverting back has its own issues if one has updated plugins which required the latest version of Calibre. I discovered this after having updated the "Quality Check" plugin after I had updated to 0.8.59. Since the Quality Check plugin requires 0.8.59 be installed it no longer works, nor is it installed. Found this out by going to Preferences>Change calibre behavior>Advanced>Plugins>Get New Plugins option. it shows the plugin is no longer installed, but states Calibre upgrade required, and lists 1.9.2 as the only option, and of course I can't find the 1.9.1 plugin to manually download it.

kiwidude · 07-09-2012, 02:25 PM

Each plugin author is free to do what they want (except add more than one zip file to their first post as it breaks Plugin Updater!) but speaking for myself it just isn't going to happen.

Going backwards in calibre versions is *rarely* a good idea, particularly given the frequency of database changes, it certainly isn't supported. Instead the recommendation as always is to have backups. The same should apply to your calibre configuration directory where your plugins are installed - had you taken a backup of that directory yourself you would have less of an issue.

For the same reasons going backwards in calibre is a bad idea, going backwards in calibre plugins can be a bad idea too (unless you restore from backup your matching pair of calibre database and calibre plugins folder). Speaking for myself my plugins frequently have migration code inside them to move configuration forward be it file or database-based - installing an older version of the plugin will break that and most likely cause you to lose your settings.

It's just a bad idea imo. I can sympathise, but (a) the need to revert after a new calibre release is infrequent, and more importantly (b) it would require a whole lot of time and effort that I for one am not going to put in. I spend enough of my life developing and supporting the plugins as is without adding more overhead.

azteech · 07-09-2012, 02:42 PM

kiwidude,

I apologize if you feel I was dinging you for this; It certainly wasn't/isn't my intent.

Rather I was, and still am recommending that a list be kept/updated (as is already the case for some) which has the previous version (or if need be, on Calibre's Sourceforge project page, where previous versions of Calibre can be found, create a plugins sub-directory where one can find an older version of a plugin)

However, your point is taken as to doing a back-up of the Calibre library and config directory before updating. Having done several updates this year alone, and not having had a problem in the past, I didn't think it would be necessary - but in future will be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwidude

Each plugin author is free to do what they want (except add more than one zip file to their first post as it breaks Plugin Updater!) but speaking for myself it just isn't going to happen.

Going backwards in calibre versions is *rarely* a good idea, particularly given the frequency of database changes, it certainly isn't supported. Instead the recommendation as always is to have backups. The same should apply to your calibre configuration directory where your plugins are installed - had you taken a backup of that directory yourself you would have less of an issue.

For the same reasons going backwards in calibre is a bad idea, going backwards in calibre plugins can be a bad idea too (unless you restore from backup your matching pair of calibre database and calibre plugins folder). Speaking for myself my plugins frequently have migration code inside them to move configuration forward be it file or database-based - installing an older version of the plugin will break that and most likely cause you to lose your settings.

It's just a bad idea imo. I can sympathise, but (a) the need to revert after a new calibre release is infrequent, and more importantly (b) it would require a whole lot of time and effort that I for one am not going to put in. I spend enough of my life developing and supporting the plugins as is without adding more overhead.

kiwidude · 07-09-2012, 02:57 PM

No apology needed, I am just trying to nip this in the bud

You have missed my point above - you frequently *cannot* run an older version of a plugin after you have installed the new version unless you restore both your database and plugins folders. I for one am *not* going to support this or have to deal with the inevitable fallout when people come to the forums and start complaining about losing their settings, continual error messages or the mess it will take to get them up and running again particularly now that plugins are storing settings inside the database.

Similar for the SourceForge idea - it is more overhead which means more of my time and with 30 or so plugins that cannot be underestimated. Please remember that apart from the odd very welcome donation we get paid nothing for doing this - and the more developing plugins starts to feel like a day job the less inclined people will be bothered to write them. I've been writing them for two years and this is the first time anyone has raised it as an issue - particularly given 99% of the time Kovid has a fix out the following Friday. Or you can run from source and get a fix as soon as Kovid has it done.

azteech · 07-09-2012, 03:22 PM

kiwidude,

No, point wasn't missed. Having worked in the network and computer fields for numerous years as a troubleshooter and installer, and in the software industry as a support tech, I can fully understand, and appreciate all the work/effort that goes into development, and support for the software and the associated plugins. I applaud all of you and your efforts to support as many platforms and software variations as there could possibly be in the industry.

After having listened to customers (numerous irate ones) complain about issues they created and having to troubleshoot/correcte/fix their issue they created, believe me I know the ins/outs of what it takes to revert back, and chaos that it could bring.

Being that I am, and probably many others are, capable of successfully correcting issues and not bother you developers because I didn't/couldn't/wasn't able to correct a problem I created (and not the software), all I was just trying to point out was what I perceived (having supported software) was a possible shortfall (IMHO).

But, you are correct there will be those who will scream because something doesn't work because they did something to break it, they don't know how to properly fix something (or can't), or are to lazy to do same, and expect the developer to troubleshoot/fix their problem. So appreciate your stance and words.

Thanks for your input....greatly appreciated ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwidude

No apology needed, I am just trying to nip this in the bud

You have missed my point above - you frequently *cannot* run an older version of a plugin after you have installed the new version unless you restore both your database and plugins folders. I for one am *not* going to support this or have to deal with the inevitable fallout when people come to the forums and start complaining about losing their settings, continual error messages or the mess it will take to get them up and running again particularly now that plugins are storing settings inside the database.

Similar for the SourceForge idea - it is more overhead which means more of my time and with 30 or so plugins that cannot be underestimated. Please remember that apart from the odd very welcome donation we get paid nothing for doing this - and the more developing plugins starts to feel like a day job the less inclined people will be bothered to write them. I've been writing them for two years and this is the first time anyone has raised it as an issue - particularly given 99% of the time Kovid has a fix out the following Friday. Or you can run from source and get a fix as soon as Kovid has it done.

cindyw9 · 07-22-2012, 09:25 PM

I am/was considering going back to an older version. I am getting azw3 files that I cant read/ convert or remove the DRM. Any idea what to do?

I have the newest version of both calibre and the tools. I uninstalled calibre with the intention of reinstalling plug-ins. I installed calibre again and went to install the 'tools/plug-ins' but they were already there.

Not sure if there is anything else I need to do.

Help please if you can.

theducks · 07-22-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cindyw9

I am/was considering going back to an older version. I am getting azw3 files that I cant read/ convert or remove the DRM. Any idea what to do?

I have the newest version of both calibre and the tools. I uninstalled calibre with the intention of reinstalling plug-ins. I installed calibre again and went to install the 'tools/plug-ins' but they were already there.

Not sure if there is anything else I need to do.

Help please if you can.

We can't discuss that plugin. you need to go to where you got it for support.

cindyw9 · 07-23-2012, 07:04 PM

Ok.... whatever. I will look elsewhere, but thank you for some interesting reads here.

07-09-2012, 02:06 PM	#1
azteech Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: arizona Device: Samsung Galaxy II (SPH-D710)	Recommendation - Maintain updated list of depreciated plugins Hello, While I find there is a list of Deprecated/Renamed/Retired Plugins, available in the Index of plugins, it doesn't have all the plugins listed where one can revert back if need be. Request the list be updated so it lists at least the last depreciated plugin file, along with a download location, or a separate sticky be made which does this. Example of such is the "Quality Check" plugin - it was recently updated to 1.9.2, with requirement of Calibre 0.8.59. Not being able to successfully run 0.8.59 I unfortunately had to revert back to 0.8.58 (as noted here Calibre hangs when adding a book file and in the bug report here https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/1022019). However, reverting back has its own issues if one has updated plugins which required the latest version of Calibre. I discovered this after having updated the "Quality Check" plugin after I had updated to 0.8.59. Since the Quality Check plugin requires 0.8.59 be installed it no longer works, nor is it installed. Found this out by going to Preferences>Change calibre behavior>Advanced>Plugins>Get New Plugins option. it shows the plugin is no longer installed, but states Calibre upgrade required, and lists 1.9.2 as the only option, and of course I can't find the 1.9.1 plugin to manually download it. Last edited by azteech; 07-09-2012 at 02:15 PM. Reason: modified wording

07-22-2012, 09:25 PM	#6
cindyw9 Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Wisconsin Device: kindle	I am/was considering going back to an older version. I am getting azw3 files that I cant read/ convert or remove the DRM. Any idea what to do? I have the newest version of both calibre and the tools. I uninstalled calibre with the intention of reinstalling plug-ins. I installed calibre again and went to install the 'tools/plug-ins' but they were already there. Not sure if there is anything else I need to do. Help please if you can. Last edited by cindyw9; 07-22-2012 at 09:37 PM. Reason: additional information

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07-09-2012, 02:25 PM	#2
kiwidude Calibre Plugins Developer Posts: 4,636 Karma: 2162064 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Oasis	Each plugin author is free to do what they want (except add more than one zip file to their first post as it breaks Plugin Updater!) but speaking for myself it just isn't going to happen. Going backwards in calibre versions is rarely a good idea, particularly given the frequency of database changes, it certainly isn't supported. Instead the recommendation as always is to have backups. The same should apply to your calibre configuration directory where your plugins are installed - had you taken a backup of that directory yourself you would have less of an issue. For the same reasons going backwards in calibre is a bad idea, going backwards in calibre plugins can be a bad idea too (unless you restore from backup your matching pair of calibre database and calibre plugins folder). Speaking for myself my plugins frequently have migration code inside them to move configuration forward be it file or database-based - installing an older version of the plugin will break that and most likely cause you to lose your settings. It's just a bad idea imo. I can sympathise, but (a) the need to revert after a new calibre release is infrequent, and more importantly (b) it would require a whole lot of time and effort that I for one am not going to put in. I spend enough of my life developing and supporting the plugins as is without adding more overhead.

07-09-2012, 02:57 PM	#4
kiwidude Calibre Plugins Developer Posts: 4,636 Karma: 2162064 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Oasis	No apology needed, I am just trying to nip this in the bud You have missed my point above - you frequently cannot run an older version of a plugin after you have installed the new version unless you restore both your database and plugins folders. I for one am not going to support this or have to deal with the inevitable fallout when people come to the forums and start complaining about losing their settings, continual error messages or the mess it will take to get them up and running again particularly now that plugins are storing settings inside the database. Similar for the SourceForge idea - it is more overhead which means more of my time and with 30 or so plugins that cannot be underestimated. Please remember that apart from the odd very welcome donation we get paid nothing for doing this - and the more developing plugins starts to feel like a day job the less inclined people will be bothered to write them. I've been writing them for two years and this is the first time anyone has raised it as an issue - particularly given 99% of the time Kovid has a fix out the following Friday. Or you can run from source and get a fix as soon as Kovid has it done.

07-23-2012, 07:04 PM	#8
cindyw9 Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Wisconsin Device: kindle	Ok.... whatever. I will look elsewhere, but thank you for some interesting reads here.