Best All-Time Sci-fi Novel? - Page 7

rkomar · 07-17-2011, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taosaur

If I have to go with just one 'best,' I'd hesitate because it's such a recent work, but Anathem gets the nod both because of its inherent strengths and intricacies and because it contains and synthesizes virtually the whole of the genre (certainly most of the works mentioned in this thread) without strain or overreach (IMO).

Hmm, when I said "best", I wasn't thinking of choosing only one (although it's obvious in hindsight that that's what it means, duh!). Rather, I was thinking of choosing books based on some kind of objective merits, rather than emotional ones. What I really wanted to see was people justifying what they thought was best by stating how they thought a book merited that distinction (just as you did when giving your choice).

As GlennD said, "best" can mean so many things. I wanted to see what were people's favourite criteria for best books, rather than just what their favourite books were.

For me, the "best" sci-fi books teach us something fundamental yet unexpected about ourselves, rather than just scratching some emotional itch. My previous choices ("War with the Newts", "Fiasco", "Omon Ra") did just that for me. The Foundation series by Asimov is among my favourites, but I'm skeptical that Seldon's calculus of people can actually work, so I don't think I learned anything new about us in those books. Based on that and my given criterion, I wouldn't rate that series as being among the "best" of sci-fi.

I'm sure others have different ideas of what constitutes "best", and I'm keen to find out what they are.

P.S. I think I'll be checking Anathem out after your description.

RiverY · 07-19-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taosaur

If I have to go with just one 'best,' I'd hesitate because it's such a recent work, but Anathem gets the nod both because of its inherent strengths and intricacies and because it contains and synthesizes virtually the whole of the genre (certainly most of the works mentioned in this thread) without strain or overreach (IMO).

When I started reading Anathem I wondered if I would ever finish. The descriptions and world building seemed to go on and on...

At some point I realized that I was completely hooked, and I could not put the book down. I reread it almost immediately and I am certain I will reread it in the future.

EatingPie · 08-08-2011, 07:05 AM

The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester.

It's what I consider "lesser known" but is better than the best the Golden Children of the Golden Age (Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Bradbury, etc.). A take-no-prisoners writing style that matches the plot and characters perfectly; indeed, a perfect storm of a novel! He was way ahead of his time, Cyberpunk novels finally take up the mantle style-wise (but they're still a gross approximation).

I read this on a trip to Hawaii, and I will forever have wonderful memories associating the book with the trip.

I'm all for reasons on recommendations -- no spoilers please! -- because I've seen lots of famously good books, but I want to know WHY they're recommended!

-Pie

rkomar · 08-14-2011, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EatingPie

The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester.

Based on the many recommendations written here for this book, I finally decided to read it. I can see now why it is favoured by so many. It really is a top-notch book: excellent plot, sci-fi-ness(?), character,... I wouldn't rank it as my choice of best sci-fi novel based on my previously posted criterion (i.e. teaching me about humanity), but it's definitely a worthy contestant. I'll have to find more of Bester's works.

Barty · 08-14-2011, 09:31 AM

Has anyone mentioned the Robots series by Asimov?

Though it's not necessarily the best of anything, I think Bear's Forge of God is a lot of fun. I hope somebody adapts it for the screen now that CGI makes it possible.

Another shout out to The Sparrow.

I agree that Clarke is better at originating ideas than fleshing them out in fiction forms. His books feel sterile. Similarly, Gibson leaves me cold. I can't finish anything by Stephenson because it feels like he's too impressed with his own pyrotechnics and expansive research. Oddly, I tolerate this in "literary fiction" but not in sci fi.

I confess I havent read many of the classics due to certain prejudices. For ex, the martial tone of Starship Troopers (and director Verhoven's satirical take) turned me off to Heinlein altogether. I haven't read Dune because the whole spice trading thing reminds me of those RTS games I have little patience for. Dumb, I know, but my deciding on what to read often hinges on such whims.

Nancy Fulda · 08-14-2011, 05:10 PM

The Sparrow was good, but far too depressing for my tastes. I couldn't bring myself to read the sequel even though it was sitting right there on my shelves.

The Sparrow is also a fascinating study in the way reader expectations change with the genre. As a sci-fi reader, I cringed at some of unrealistic world-building and chafed at the utter lack of clear physical descriptions of the aliens. But (if I recall correctly) the book hit the NYT Bestseller lists, and I'm guessing the lack of hard sf details had a lot to do with that. It played with the ideas of science fiction without forcing mainstream readers to wallow through the details of science fiction.

beppe · 08-17-2011, 06:10 PM

It's a long while that I do not read s.f. But I read it a lot once. My friend and me used to say that when things look grim and depressing there is nothing like a good s.f story to change the mind.

The one I reread more times are:
Enders's game
The gods themselves by Asimov
The Lensman Series by E.E."Doc" Smith.

The Lensman are on ebooks, I found out lately. Nobody has mentioned it yet on this thread. It's fantastic. Childish, naive? Yes, absolutely, but fantastically catching and it gets better and better with each book until the last one, where everything is settled, finally. Except that there is a sequel.

frquixote · 08-20-2011, 04:41 AM

+1 for The Time Odyssey series by Clarke and Baxter

Couldn't put it down.

Used to be Childhood's End, but it has been a long time since I last read it and its not available as an ePub. If Childhood's End is ever published in ePub, I hope they'll publish it with the original opening chapters, not the revised opening chapters that were inserted after the end of the Cold War.

Side note: Seeing all these great books listed reminds me of one of my pet peeves. I really wish someone would publish a reasonably complete collection of some of the classical SF authors in ePub. So many of Asimov's Robot books are not available, except as PDF. Most of Clarke's are also not available in ePub and, when I found the Rama series was available, it was annoying to discover that two of the books were only available in PDF format, not ePub. I've seen the same problem with several series from various authors in various other genres.

GlennD · 08-20-2011, 12:41 PM

I agree with your sidenote...one of my ebook frustrations is that I see 40-50 year old books being e-published at the same prices as a new book, while a paper copy in a used bookstore is a buck or less. Or you can get it used from Amazon for effectively the price of shipping/handling. It's especially annoying because a lot of these older novels are much shorter than the current thick tomes. I think there'd be a market for larger collections, especially of all of the classic authors. I'd be thrilled to get a complete Heinlein collection, or Clarke or whomever for a reasonable price. But there's no way I'm paying hundreds of dollars to get e-copies of books I already have physical copies of.

It's an area where the practical reality of converting and 'typesetting' a book with no digital original and the economic reality of the marketplace aren't quite in sync yet.

EatingPie · 08-22-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

Has anyone mentioned the Robots series by Asimov?

Good books, but please stop... STOP STOP STOP reading at The Naked Sun. Do not continue on to Robots of Dawn or Robots and Empire.

It becomes so terrible, so horrible, so stupidly awful at the end -- and I mean the very end where everything is explained in order to connect the Robots series to his Empire series -- that I was truly embarrassed.

Also, MILD SPOILER, Asimov's moral values changed in the intervening years, and his character changes accordingly. In the early books, he refuses the advances of a super hot chick because he is married; he makes a very strong moral case for his fidelity. In the later books, he gives in, and there is no remorse, or even suggestion that he did anything wrong.

Regardless of your moral feelings on the issue, the problem was that the character changed radically for no explicable reason, and it stuck out like a sore thumb. (Comparable to "Don't call me chicken!" in Back to the Future 2/3.)

-Pie

Looler · 08-24-2011, 05:00 PM

Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card.

taosaur · 08-24-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Looler

Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card.

I enjoyed the book, but I have trouble putting it in even a top ten for the genre, partly because it's highly derivative of another classic, Starship Troopers, and partly because of the formulaic, crowd-pleasing structure. It's engaging, as the coming-of-age hero shtick usually is, but ultimately pretty shallow, borrowing any substance it has from Heinlein, who explored it all in greater depth at, what, 1/3 the word count?

EatingPie · 08-24-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taosaur

I enjoyed the book, but I have trouble putting it in even a top ten for the genre, partly because it's highly derivative of another classic, Starship Troopers, and partly because of the formulaic, crowd-pleasing structure. It's engaging, as the coming-of-age hero shtick usually is, but ultimately pretty shallow, borrowing any substance it has from Heinlein, who explored it all in greater depth at, what, 1/3 the word count?

Heinlein! ACK!!!!

I'll try to just leave it at that so as not to anger anyone else by my opinions of the man and his work!

-Pie

EatingPie · 08-24-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Looler

Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card.

Another book where you have to scream STOP!!!!

I loved Speaker for the Dead as a teen, and still recommend it though I have advanced beyond it in philosophical maturity since reading it.

But for all that is holy, DO NOT READ Xenoside or the other book!!! He won two Hugos, and I bought Xenoside in hard cover -- on a student budget! -- in the hopes he'd win again for a record third... and then I read the book.

No, he didn't win... and the Hugos remained legitimate for yet another year!

-Pie

Looler · 08-24-2011, 07:40 PM

Since I really liked Ender's Game I thought I'd give his new book Pathfinder a shot. It sucked. Just saying.

08-14-2011, 09:31 AM	#95
Barty doofus Posts: 2,521 Karma: 13036221 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	Has anyone mentioned the Robots series by Asimov? Though it's not necessarily the best of anything, I think Bear's Forge of God is a lot of fun. I hope somebody adapts it for the screen now that CGI makes it possible. Another shout out to The Sparrow. I agree that Clarke is better at originating ideas than fleshing them out in fiction forms. His books feel sterile. Similarly, Gibson leaves me cold. I can't finish anything by Stephenson because it feels like he's too impressed with his own pyrotechnics and expansive research. Oddly, I tolerate this in "literary fiction" but not in sci fi. I confess I havent read many of the classics due to certain prejudices. For ex, the martial tone of Starship Troopers (and director Verhoven's satirical take) turned me off to Heinlein altogether. I haven't read Dune because the whole spice trading thing reminds me of those RTS games I have little patience for. Dumb, I know, but my deciding on what to read often hinges on such whims. Last edited by Barty; 08-14-2011 at 09:45 AM.

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08-08-2011, 07:05 AM	#93
EatingPie Blueberry! Posts: 888 Karma: 133343 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: Sony PRS-500 (RIP); PRS-600 (Good Riddance); PRS-505; PRS-650; PRS-350	The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester. It's what I consider "lesser known" but is better than the best the Golden Children of the Golden Age (Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Bradbury, etc.). A take-no-prisoners writing style that matches the plot and characters perfectly; indeed, a perfect storm of a novel! He was way ahead of his time, Cyberpunk novels finally take up the mantle style-wise (but they're still a gross approximation). I read this on a trip to Hawaii, and I will forever have wonderful memories associating the book with the trip. I'm all for reasons on recommendations -- no spoilers please! -- because I've seen lots of famously good books, but I want to know WHY they're recommended! -Pie

08-14-2011, 05:10 PM	#96
Nancy Fulda I write stories. Posts: 700 Karma: 16437432 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern Germany Device: kindle	The Sparrow was good, but far too depressing for my tastes. I couldn't bring myself to read the sequel even though it was sitting right there on my shelves. The Sparrow is also a fascinating study in the way reader expectations change with the genre. As a sci-fi reader, I cringed at some of unrealistic world-building and chafed at the utter lack of clear physical descriptions of the aliens. But (if I recall correctly) the book hit the NYT Bestseller lists, and I'm guessing the lack of hard sf details had a lot to do with that. It played with the ideas of science fiction without forcing mainstream readers to wallow through the details of science fiction.

08-17-2011, 06:10 PM	#97
beppe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,161 Karma: 81026524 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Italy Device: Kindle3, Ipod4, IPad2	It's a long while that I do not read s.f. But I read it a lot once. My friend and me used to say that when things look grim and depressing there is nothing like a good s.f story to change the mind. The one I reread more times are: Enders's game The gods themselves by Asimov The Lensman Series by E.E."Doc" Smith. The Lensman are on ebooks, I found out lately. Nobody has mentioned it yet on this thread. It's fantastic. Childish, naive? Yes, absolutely, but fantastically catching and it gets better and better with each book until the last one, where everything is settled, finally. Except that there is a sequel.

08-20-2011, 04:41 AM	#98
frquixote Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 2448688 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kapolei, Oahu, HI Device: KOBO Libra 2, Kindle PW3, Samsung 8A Tablet, Samsung S10e Phone	+1 for The Time Odyssey series by Clarke and Baxter Couldn't put it down. Used to be Childhood's End, but it has been a long time since I last read it and its not available as an ePub. If Childhood's End is ever published in ePub, I hope they'll publish it with the original opening chapters, not the revised opening chapters that were inserted after the end of the Cold War. Side note: Seeing all these great books listed reminds me of one of my pet peeves. I really wish someone would publish a reasonably complete collection of some of the classical SF authors in ePub. So many of Asimov's Robot books are not available, except as PDF. Most of Clarke's are also not available in ePub and, when I found the Rama series was available, it was annoying to discover that two of the books were only available in PDF format, not ePub. I've seen the same problem with several series from various authors in various other genres.

08-20-2011, 12:41 PM	#99
GlennD Wizard Posts: 2,101 Karma: 17249026 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Pacific NW Device: sony PRS350, iPhone, iPad	I agree with your sidenote...one of my ebook frustrations is that I see 40-50 year old books being e-published at the same prices as a new book, while a paper copy in a used bookstore is a buck or less. Or you can get it used from Amazon for effectively the price of shipping/handling. It's especially annoying because a lot of these older novels are much shorter than the current thick tomes. I think there'd be a market for larger collections, especially of all of the classic authors. I'd be thrilled to get a complete Heinlein collection, or Clarke or whomever for a reasonable price. But there's no way I'm paying hundreds of dollars to get e-copies of books I already have physical copies of. It's an area where the practical reality of converting and 'typesetting' a book with no digital original and the economic reality of the marketplace aren't quite in sync yet.

08-24-2011, 05:00 PM	#101
Looler Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Touch	Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card.

08-24-2011, 07:40 PM	#105
Looler Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Touch	Since I really liked Ender's Game I thought I'd give his new book Pathfinder a shot. It sucked. Just saying.

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