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Old 10-12-2019, 11:20 PM   #196
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Right on. If a Tolino Vision HD 4 ever comes up for that cheap, I'll get one.
Just bear in mind that the Tolino firmwares are very limited in terms of format support compared to their Kobo counterparts: ePub, PDF, TXT. That's it. There are probems with the typeface and font controls in the Deutsche Telekom firmware releases; I don't know if they've been addressed in the Kobo releases.

Oh, yeah, Kobo bought Tolino from DT. That's why you can't buy Kobo in the German markets and you can't buy Tolino anywhere else. Also why the third (I think) generation and later Tolino hardware is rebadged Kobo hardware.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:36 PM   #197
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Right on. If a Tolino Vision HD 4 ever comes up for that cheap, I'll get one.
I should mention that the Vision 3 has a bright, clear screen as well — just not the warm setting. The 4 HD has 13 LEDs (7 white and 6 amber).
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:52 PM   #198
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Just bear in mind that the Tolino firmwares are very limited in terms of format support compared to their Kobo counterparts: ePub, PDF, TXT. That's it. There are probems with the typeface and font controls in the Deutsche Telekom firmware releases; I don't know if they've been addressed in the Kobo releases.
I basically only use ePbub on my non-Kindle readers. The font issues seem to have been resolved with release 12.2.0 (although the only problem I had was that some fonts wouldn't install). The Tolino's interface is "sparse," but it has the controls I need — and the line spacing adjustments seem to work on all eBooks, unlike the issues I've had with Kobos on some ePubs.

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Oh, yeah, Kobo bought Tolino from DT. That's why you can't buy Kobo in the German markets and you can't buy Tolino anywhere else. Also why the third (I think) generation and later Tolino hardware is rebadged Kobo hardware.
Yep. I've found Tolinos on eBay and at Shop Goodwill and (apparently) I can buy new ones at Grooves.Land in Germany and get free, fast shipping. But since I don't have a German address (or one of the other European countries where the Tolinos are supported) I can't register and/or get their free Cloud storage — which would be nice because then I could sync the Tolinos. And they may have changed something with the 12.2.0 software release. On my Tolinos before the Epos, I was able to skip registration (which I can do on the Epos) and I was still able to download the dictionaries (which the Epos won't allow). On the Epos it goes into the registration loop (again) before I can download the standard dictionaries. Turns out that you just have to start the setup process. Once you start it, then back out, you can download the dictionaries. (Still no Cloud and you can't buy from Thalia (or whichever market the Tolino is hooked to) but everything else works.) I think this how I got around this on my Vision 4, now that I think about it. Which, of course, I can't complete, so it's futile. (I downloaded all the dictionaries for the other Tolinos before updating to 12.2.0, so I don't know if this is an Epos thing, or a 12.2.0 thing.) Fortunately the Tolinos use an open dictionary format (and there are many dictionaries that you can download for it) and (in my case) I already had the standard dictionaries downloaded on my other Tolinos, so it was just a matter of copying them over. Still, it's something to think about.

Last edited by rcentros; 10-13-2019 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:23 AM   #199
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Just bear in mind that the Tolino firmwares are very limited in terms of format support compared to their Kobo counterparts: ePub, PDF, TXT. That's it. There are probems with the typeface and font controls in the Deutsche Telekom firmware releases; I don't know if they've been addressed in the Kobo releases.
I still use my Nooks, which are similarly spartan. I'm not looking to replace my Kobo. I just like to goof around with gadgets (I just bought a Windows 10 phone) so long as I can get them inexpensively.
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:47 AM   #200
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I still use my Nooks, which are similarly spartan.
If you get a Tolino you'll find that the interface is similar to the Nook Glowlight (2015). At least similar in the way you access it. No thinner or thicker font settings, however.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:31 AM   #201
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This is unlikely to happen because it requires using Adobe's RMSDK which will never become a standard. Okay, yes, the algorithms probably have been reverse-engineered but there really isn't a lot of demand for it. Witness Amazon and Apple not going there in the first place and Kobo kind of maybe moving away from it. I can see Kobo dropping RMSDK entirely in the next few years due to privacy concerns about the personally identifiable and personally sensitive information RMSDK collects and sends to Adobe.
Well, if epubs also go to screen count, at least my Kobo will be consistently inconsistent with my Nook.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:11 AM   #202
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Well, if epubs also go to screen count, at least my Kobo will be consistently inconsistent with my Nook.


Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out what "sensitive personal information" they'll be able to glean from my eBook reading. Not one of my major worries.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:19 AM   #203
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Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out what "sensitive personal information" they'll be able to glean from my eBook reading. Not one of my major worries.
https://www.adobe.com/privacy/polici...obe-rmsdk.html

RMSDK collects information which specifically identifies the end user and their device. This is the very definition of personally identifiable data: data that can uniquely identify an individual person.

RMSDK collects metadata about the books you read including titles. This may be personally sensitive depending on titles or locales. For example, an end user starts buying books about coping with HIV. High probability that this person has recently been diagnosed HIV positive. Health information is sensitive, and it becomes personally sensitive when associated with an individual person which Adobe clearly does.
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Old 10-13-2019, 12:40 PM   #204
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Just following up on this a bit...

When you buy a book from a vendor like Amazon or Rakuten Kobo the vendor knows who you are and what you've purchased. This is patently obvious to the consumer: of course the vendor knows what you're buying, and of course they know who you are when you use a credit card.

What isn't necessarily obvious to consumers is that when RMSDK DRM is involved then Adobe also know who you are and what you've purchased. This is where the privicy concerns start, and given the costs associated with GDPR violations I can see Rakuten moving to minimize the risks.
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:00 AM   #205
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When you buy a book from a vendor like Amazon or Rakuten Kobo the vendor knows who you are and what you've purchased. This is patently obvious to the consumer: of course the vendor knows what you're buying, and of course they know who you are when you use a credit card.

What isn't necessarily obvious to consumers is that when RMSDK DRM is involved then Adobe also know who you are and what you've purchased. This is where the privicy concerns start, and given the costs associated with GDPR violations I can see Rakuten moving to minimize the risks.
But, Adobe doesn't find out anything until you sign up for an Adobe account. Which means you go through their privacy notifications. Which means the consumer does know.

Also, I don't believe that Adobe finds out about your books until you try to download them. I doubt if Kobo would generate the licence key or whatever is need until you attempt to download the ACSM file for a book. That way they don't pay Adobe for any books that are never downloaded that way.

As to Kobo dropping Adobe support, I don't see it happening. Dropping it means that Kobo users wouldn't be able to read books from sources that use Adobe's servers. That includes a lot of libraries around the world.
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:03 PM   #206
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So are my epub pages likely to stay a fixed length? Or could they still switch to screen count too if Kobo decides to display it that way?
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:37 PM   #207
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But, Adobe doesn't find out anything until you sign up for an Adobe account. Which means you go through their privacy notifications. Which means the consumer does know.
A single notification at account registration time may not be sufficient in jurisdictions that require notification and consent at the time of data collection every time data is collected. YMMV.

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Also, I don't believe that Adobe finds out about your books until you try to download them. I doubt if Kobo would generate the licence key or whatever is need until you attempt to download the ACSM file for a book. That way they don't pay Adobe for any books that are never downloaded that way.
Adobe collects this data every time the DRM is checked so this includes downloads to Kobo devices and applications and not just ASCM files for ADE Desktop.

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As to Kobo dropping Adobe support, I don't see it happening. Dropping it means that Kobo users wouldn't be able to read books from sources that use Adobe's servers. That includes a lot of libraries around the world.
True, Kobo can't drop RMSDK at a drop of a hat. They can, however, move to reduce the dependency going forward.
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Old 10-14-2019, 02:01 PM   #208
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So are my epub pages likely to stay a fixed length? Or could they still switch to screen count too if Kobo decides to display it that way?
I don't think Kobo could do that. I believe the ePub renderer is not software they created, like the kepub renderer is. But I'm not an expert here.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:57 PM   #209
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A single notification at account registration time may not be sufficient in jurisdictions that require notification and consent at the time of data collection every time data is collected. YMMV.
Which should be handled by an ADE update.
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Adobe collects this data every time the DRM is checked so this includes downloads to Kobo devices and applications and not just ASCM files for ADE Desktop.
As I said, I do not believe that is correct. Books downloaded directly to the device or apps come from Kobo's servers. And don't use Adobe DRM. Hence, for all the people out there that buy from Kobo and download directly to the device, I do not believe that Adobe has any knowledge of these books. I am pretty sure that it is only when you attempt to download a book with Adobe DRM from the library in the Kobo store, that Adobe is notified. You do not have to tell Kobo anything about your Adobe account to use their store and download books to the device or apps.

Last edited by davidfor; 10-14-2019 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Fix quoting.
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:04 AM   #210
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As I said, I do not believe that is correct. Books downloaded directly to the device or apps come from Kobo's servers. And don't use Adobe DRM. Hence, for all the people out there that buy from Kobo and download directly to the device, I do not believe that Adobe has any knowledge of these books.
Maybe this is no longer relevant, but several years ago version 4 of ADE did scan all titles loaded on a device, without regard to origin or DRM, and uploaded the data to Adobe's servers. Initially Adobe denied this behavior but testing by both Ars Technica https://arstechnica.com/information-...in-plain-text/
and the EFF https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/1...-e-reader-mess
confirmed Adobe was not telling the truth. Soon afterwards, Adobe claimed it was a "bug" and released 4.0.1 which changed the behavior. The EFF confirmed the new release had solved the problem, at least for the time being.

But, as a result, I think some people still question Adobe's honesty about revealing what their software really does.
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