NVDA (NonVisual Desktop Access) and Kindle for PC 1.19

[MikeB1972]

Encryption/obfuscation isn't necessarily DRM - Fine line I Know

The only way to be sure is take a book and put in on a kindle registered to someone else's account and see if it opens (Or create a test account, but I think they frown on this).

If the book can be read, then it fulfills TOR's requirement of being able to be read on personal devices.

[GeoffR]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Encryption/obfuscation isn't necessarily DRM - Fine line I Know

The only way to be sure is take a book and put in on a kindle registered to someone else's account and see if it opens (Or create a test account, but I think they frown on this).

If the book can be read, then it fulfills TOR's requirement of being able to be read on personal devices.

Tor gave as reasons for going DRM-free that you can read their ebooks on any of your devices, not just any of your Kindle devices, and being able to move your library from one ereader to another, not just from one Kindle to another.

http://www.torbooks.co.uk/buy-tor-ebooks/

In another article they make it clear that the ability to change formats is one of the benefits of DRM-free:

DRM was an irritant taking away the flexibility and their choice of reading device and format, the very things that made the ebook so desirable a format to begin with.

http://www.tor.com/2013/04/29/tor-bo...ne-year-later/

If the KFX is encrypted then there is no way to change the format to read it on a non-Kindle device. It is clear that when Tor say DRM-free they take that to mean unencrypted too.

(Personally the most important reason for buying DRM-free or removing DRM from ebooks is to be able to edit them to correct the publisher's mistakes, but I guess it is understandable that a publisher is not going to promote that as a reason.)

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Tor gave as reasons for going DRM-free that you can read their ebooks on any of your devices, not just any of your Kindle devices, and being able to move your library from one ereader to another, not just from one Kindle to another.

http://www.torbooks.co.uk/buy-tor-ebooks/

In another article they make it clear that the ability to change formats is one of the benefits of DRM-free:

http://www.tor.com/2013/04/29/tor-bo...ne-year-later/

If the KFX is encrypted then there is no way to change the format to read it on a non-Kindle device. It is clear that when Tor say DRM-free they take that to mean unencrypted too.

(Personally the most important reason for buying DRM-free or removing DRM from ebooks is to be able to edit them to correct the publisher's mistakes, but I guess it is understandable that a publisher is not going to promote that as a reason.)

I agree, however the only practical way to read Amazon books is either on an Amazon device or with an Amazon app - due to file format rather than DRM.

My point still stands - if you can read the downloaded book on someone else's account it doesn't have DRM, you might not be able to read the book in a text viewer but try that with a Microsoft Word File.

You can't move any Kindle books to an ePub ereader (Without conversion at least) so the move from ereader to ereader only applies if the new ereader can read the same format.

[lkmiller]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Encryption/obfuscation isn't necessarily DRM - Fine line I Know

The only way to be sure is take a book and put in on a kindle registered to someone else's account and see if it opens (Or create a test account, but I think they frown on this).

If the book can be read, then it fulfills TOR's requirement of being able to be read on personal devices.

Good point. Anyone try this? If the DRM voucher allows you to open it on any account/device that actually supports this format, I suppose it's technically DRM-free. But the point of selling books without DRM is so the customer has more flexibility for their own personal use, not so they can share them with other people.

[jhowell]

DRM means different things to different people.

To me, the key idea of DRM is restricting the actions that can be done to the media. Whether that control is used to restrict access to a particular user or a particular ecosystem is irrelevant. Having books locked into the Amazon ecosystem means that if Amazon ever drops support for KFX those books would become unreadable.

The KFX file format is not shy about having the string 'DRM' appear multiple times in conjunction with the encrypted components of the book. So Amazon seems to believe that it is using DRM.

KFX DRM does have the ability to not restrict a book to a particular device. But the ability to actually move these books between devices and have them be readable is questionable.

I have been able to remove a KFX book from a Kindle device and later restore it. Others report being able to move some books between Kindle devices. But so far that ability has not been demonstrated with Kindle for PC.

I have tried saving and restoring a book that was downloaded by Kindle for PC in KFX format. I copied the subdirectory containing the book files within My Kindle Content and then had Kindle for PC delete the original download. When I tried opening the copy, Kindle for PC failed with the message "Error opening book". (When performing the same steps with a book in KF8 format the book opens properly.)

Perhaps a way around this will be found, but transferring encrypted KFX books to even the original installation of Kindle for PC appears problematic.

--

ETA: It seems a stretch to me to claim that "...so that you can enjoy reading it on your personal devices" means "your KINDLE devices" for a book sold by Amazon and "any of your reading devices" for the same book sold at another book store. Format shifting is a legitimate use-case allowed by the publisher, but blocked by Amazon's DRM.

Personally I think that the best solution for books that the publisher intends to be DRM-free would be to have Amazon allow any purchaser to download them from their website in an unencrypted and convertible format, such as MOBI or KF8.

[lkmiller]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Personally I think that the best solution for books that the publisher intends to be DRM-free would be to have Amazon allow any purchaser to download them from their website in an unencrypted and convertible format, such as MOBI or KF8.

I agree. They should give everyone the clear choice to download to a Kindle for enhanced typesetting (and whatever other features) or download from the website to get the actual DRM-free version. Not that Amazon will do it, but that would honor the true purpose the publisher intends when selling DRM-free. So you can read the book on any device you choose. Not so you can share your ebook with another kindle owner.

[jhowell]

I have noticed that "Screen Reader: Supported" has started showing up in the book details for some Kindle books on Amazon. I did some searching and found this on the Accessibility for Kindle e-readers page:

The Kindle store property “Screen Reader: Supported” on the e-book product page details indicates that an e-book title is supported by many popular screen readers: VoiceView on Fire Tablets and Kindle E-readers, VoiceOver on iOS, TalkBack on Android, and NVDA on Windows. Functionality may vary across titles and screen readers. If you find a title is not working as you would expect with your screen reader of choice, please let us know. On Windows, only books purchased and downloaded using Kindle for PC version 1.19 or higher are supported. Please contact customer service to request updates for books purchased and downloaded with previous versions.

[lkmiller]

Ah, sounds like that's a pretty definitive way to determine if a book will be in KFX format on devices/apps that support it. Even more so than "Enhanced Typesetting: Enabled."

[odamizu]

I've heard you can force Kindle for PC 1.19 to download books in AZW3 by removing the file “%localappdata%\Amazon\Kindle\application\renderer-test.exe”. You can also give it a new name. The next time K4PC is launched, any books already downloaded in KFX format will no longer open and will need to be removed and re-downloaded (as AZW3).

Haven't tried it myself as I'm on a Mac, and unfortunately there's no similar work around for K4Mac

[tastyeng]

Originally Posted by odamizu

I've heard you can force Kindle for PC 1.19 to download books in AZW3 by removing the file “%localappdata%\Amazon\Kindle\application\renderer-test.exe”. You can also give it a new name. The next time K4PC is launched, any books already downloaded in KFX format will no longer open and will need to be removed and re-downloaded (as AZW3).

Haven't tried it myself as I'm on a Mac, and unfortunately there's no similar work around for K4Mac

Same result can be accomplished on Mac by closing Kindle for Mac, then opening Terminal and pasting the following:

chmod -x /Applications/Kindle.app/Contents/MacOS/renderer-test

After that, the next time you attempt to open a book previously downloaded in KFX format, you'll be prompted to right-click and do Remove From Device and download the file again. The replacement will be in the older format.

If for some reason this breaks something, you can always put things back the way they were with:

chmod +x /Applications/Kindle.app/Contents/MacOS/renderer-test

[odamizu]

@tastyeng: Awesome! Thank you so much!

[Jo69]

Originally Posted by tastyeng

Kindle for PC 1.17.1: https://s3.amazonaws.com/kindleforpc...1.17.44170.exe

The app may autoupdate itself to 1.19 though, so I'm not sure the old version will be usable for more than one run at a time unless one prevents the new version check. It's also possible that Amazon will eventually block older versions from being able to connect.

Amazon are still distributing the old version for the Mac from the official page, but presuming an eventual update to 1.19 here's the direct link for 1.17.1:

Kindle for Mac 1.17.1: https://s3.amazonaws.com/kindleforma...rMac-44182.dmg

Have gone back to Kindle App 1.17.0 which works fine.
On Amazon webpage I have added some of my books to Collections
Is there a way to get them to show on the Windows Kindle App as when I click on Collections it says add but none there to add.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Jo69

Is there a way to get them to show on the Windows Kindle App as when I click on Collections it says add but none there to add.

No. Kindle for PC uses an old style of collections that is incompatible with cloud collections on the Amazon website.

[jecilop]

Originally Posted by tastyeng

Kindle for PC 1.17.1: https://s3.amazonaws.com/kindleforpc...1.17.44170.exe

The app may autoupdate itself to 1.19 though, so I'm not sure the old version will be usable for more than one run at a time unless one prevents the new version check. It's also possible that Amazon will eventually block older versions from being able to connect.

Amazon are still distributing the old version for the Mac from the official page, but presuming an eventual update to 1.19 here's the direct link for 1.17.1:

Kindle for Mac 1.17.1: https://s3.amazonaws.com/kindleforma...rMac-44182.dmg

PC link no longer works. Any suggestions to find this elsewhere?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by jecilop

PC link no longer works. Any suggestions to find this elsewhere?

I'm tempted to say Google is your friend. Do a Google search for "KindleForPC-installer-1.17.44170.exe" and see what turns up. Less polite would be JFGI. To make it a bit safer to download the file, the SHA256 for the executable I downloaded from Amazon last August is:
14E0F0053F1276C0C7C446892DC170344F707FBFE99B695176 2C120144163200