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View Poll Results: Why do you prefer Kobo ereaders to Amazon ereaders?
Better store 4 3.17%
Better hardware 32 25.40%
More innovative products 24 19.05%
More open and customizable 90 71.43%
Better software 55 43.65%
Better support 8 6.35%
Better price 12 9.52%
Library access 39 30.95%
More accessible in my country 14 11.11%
I disagree with the direction Amazon's is taking with ereaders 38 30.16%
I disagree with Amazon's policy directions in general 57 45.24%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-18-2021, 04:58 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post

I just always snicker whenever someone tries to suggest that Kobo and EPUB are somehow the more "moral" choice, when the only thing either have done is be less successful than Amazon and Kindlebooks. Moral Kobo would trade places in a heartbeat with immoral Amazon if given half a chance. It's fair if someone loves Kobo devices and prefers to use them. But it's unfair to suggest that they're the "moral" choice simply because they failed (though not from lack of trying) to keep up with evil Amazon.
The only word I'd change in this is "unfair" - I'd say either "naive" if the person making the claim actually believed it, or "hypocritical" if they didn't. "Moral" and "business" go together like ""Sun" and "cold", or "Space" and "small".
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Old 11-18-2021, 06:17 AM   #122
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There are other words I'd throw into the conversation, like cynical.

There truly are some businesses that begin with high moral aspirations. I'm not arguing Rakuten / Kobo fit this description, I don't know enough about their beginnings, but some do try. Whether they manage to retain those in the long term is always a difficulty, circumstances change.

That I favour Kobo is not a judgement on their values but on mine. I value their existence as competition in a market with not enough of it, so I will continue to support them (within reason).
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Old 11-18-2021, 06:58 AM   #123
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That I favour Kobo is not a judgement on their values but on mine. I value their existence as competition in a market with not enough of it, so I will continue to support them (within reason).
But the fact that you like their devices is still the number one reason you favor Kobo, right? Surely you're not sticking with devices that don't quite live up to your expectations in the name of good competition?
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Old 11-18-2021, 12:31 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I have no ereader preference. I buy from everyone and read using apps on a tablet.

I just always snicker whenever someone tries to suggest that Kobo and EPUB are somehow the more "moral" choice, when the only thing either have done is be less successful than Amazon and Kindlebooks. Moral Kobo would trade places in a heartbeat with immoral Amazon if given half a chance. It's fair if someone loves Kobo devices and prefers to use them. But it's unfair to suggest that they're the "moral" choice simply because they failed (though not from lack of trying) to keep up with evil Amazon.
Im not sure anyone, at least in this thread, is arguing kobo is more moral than amazon. Maybe what some people are saying is that it is easier to read sideloaded books on a kobo than on a kindle, because of the design of the two softwares. From what i know of the two, id agree with that. Kobo is less restrictive.
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Old 11-18-2021, 12:35 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Well, you do, it's just not between the two companies the thread is about. Or, more correctly, you have a preference for how you read ebooks which does not involve the devices under discussion. And I suspect that preference is fairly flexible.


I agree with you on this. I always wonder how much of the moral posturing some companies do is because they know they have lost the war and justifying why or coming up with another tactic. For example, Kobo used to talk about being "open". But, whether that was something they truly believed or just something they thought would help them, I don't know. I am sure there are some companies out there that have these moral practices because that is what they truly believe, but, I'm not convinced I have ever seen one. Or at least not one with more than a few employees. I definitely haven't worked for one.
Have Kobo ever characterized themselves as "open"? Certainly, they are more open; they are rooted out of the box. But i am not aware they have ever used that as a selling point.
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Old 11-18-2021, 01:21 PM   #126
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I prefer "Kobo". I put it in quotation marks because, for me, it's never been the brand of reader but the number of compatible formats available on the device. The first ereaders in my household were the original Nooks and we have evolved from there to the current Formas.
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Old 11-18-2021, 07:01 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamaman View Post
Im not sure anyone, at least in this thread, is arguing kobo is more moral than amazon. Maybe what some people are saying is that it is easier to read sideloaded books on a kobo than on a kindle, because of the design of the two softwares. From what i know of the two, id agree with that. Kobo is less restrictive.
Less restrictive sorta kinda...

I find sideloading to Kobo somewhat restrictive. Yes, I get my book covers regardless of whether I sideload epub or kepub. BUT, sideloading to Kobo still involves annoying choices that are not entirely dissimilar to Kindle's annoying choices.

ePub, I get ligatures. KePub I don't, but I can zoom images. And there are other differences. In general, I prefer ePub, but not for books with maps or other images where I may need to zoom!

The irritating bit is that zooming images was possible in my Sony readers, so it certainly should have been able to be preserved for vanilla ePub in Kobo devices, grrrrrrr.

So I guess you can count me in on the Kobo/Amazon NEITHER is more "moral" side.
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Old 11-18-2021, 07:19 PM   #128
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But the fact that you like their devices is still the number one reason you favor Kobo, right? Surely you're not sticking with devices that don't quite live up to your expectations in the name of good competition?
For me the device is probably secondary. After all, there are other devices out there, and I sideload everything anyway. So there is a good chance I'd buy ebooks from Kobo even if they had no device (assuming they managed to survive).

But the post you quoted included the reservation "within reason" for a reason. I would not continue to support a company that I didn't think worthy of support. I find Kobo worthy on several counts, not just their device. In an earlier post I said:
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[...] The fact that Kobo (in my experience) make excellent hardware, have a large selection of books, and do price matching, all adds up to making them a company I have been very happy to deal with. It makes my "supporting the competition" choice very easy to live with. [...]
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Old 11-18-2021, 07:23 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I have no ereader preference. I buy from everyone and read using apps on a tablet.

I just always snicker whenever someone tries to suggest that Kobo and EPUB are somehow the more "moral" choice, when the only thing either have done is be less successful than Amazon and Kindlebooks. Moral Kobo would trade places in a heartbeat with immoral Amazon if given half a chance. It's fair if someone loves Kobo devices and prefers to use them. But it's unfair to suggest that they're the "moral" choice simply because they failed (though not from lack of trying) to keep up with evil Amazon.
Actually, ePub is a more moral choice. The reason is that with ePub, when the publisher wants to sell without DRM, they can do so with ePub. But with KFX, Amazon is not allowing the publishers to sell without DRM. That's immoral.
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Old 11-18-2021, 07:46 PM   #130
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Actually, ePub is a more moral choice. The reason is that with ePub, when the publisher wants to sell without DRM, they can do so with ePub. But with KFX, Amazon is not allowing the publishers to sell without DRM. That's immoral.
That debases the word immoral. Seriously. Save it for something that matters.
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Old 11-19-2021, 12:03 AM   #131
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Have Kobo ever characterized themselves as "open"? Certainly, they are more open; they are rooted out of the box. But i am not aware they have ever used that as a selling point.
Well, that is what I said. And yes, they did. It is a while back, but for a few years they pushed this in their press releases and the description of their devices. They weren't talking about open source software, but, how open the devices are for books from other sources. And the number of supported formats.

I tried to find it in the waybackmachine, but, I couldn't see an example. But, https://web.archive.org/web/20150428...ucts/kobo-aura has "OPEN UP" under the Kobo logo. That was part of what I was thinking of. I think this might be towards the end, so it might have been dropped when Rakuten purchased Kobo.
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Old 11-19-2021, 11:05 AM   #132
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...They weren't talking about open source software, but, how open the devices are for books from other sources. And the number of supported formats.
I remember Barnes and Noble mentioning this about the Nook, back in the days of the ST. Not because it supported so many formats, but because it used ePub, which was the open format used by everyone but Amazon.

It was part of why I bought a Nook over a Kindle. Though, in the end I only wound up buying from B&N. So clever marketing on their part.
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