eBook piracy, how common is it?

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

That hasn't been my experience.

I'm currently reading 'Pitt the Younger' by William Hague in ebook - every word in a quotation that has a double f, has a space where one of the fs should be.

None of the commercial ebooks I've bought has been up to the standard of the pbook version. OCR errors abound.

I noticed it depends on how a book has been turned into an ebook. If you get a newly published book (one that is published in pbook (if there is a pbook...) and ebook at the virtually the same time), there are hardly any errors. I presume the pbook and the ebook use the same source in that case (one copy goes to a printer, the other to the electronic shop). If you take an older book, there can be some OCR mistakes which can be annoying.

If a book is available in officially, I will always buy the book, no matter the price (naturally, if I am interrested...) If a book isn't available officially, and I desperately want it, I will use other means to get it. But I will buy it as soon as it becomes available officially.

If a publisher is too lazy or an author (or his/her descendants) is too scared (can't find another word for it) to publish their books in another format than pbook even while there are lots of possible buyers, I'm not sure why I should sponsor them.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With the greatest respect, you asked "how does borrowing from a library differ" and I answered you. The payment under the "Public Lending Right" scheme is, to be specific, 5.98p every time a book is borrowed, up to a maximum of £6,600 a year. An author receives the payment if their payment is £1 or more - ie corresponding to a minimum of 17 check-outs across the entire UK library system in a year; this payment forms an extremely important element of income for many authors, because it goes directly to them, not to their publisher or agents. I repeat the question: you claim that "there is no difference" between illegally downloading a book and borrowing it from a library. How does the author get their 5.98p if you illegally download a book?

They don't, but then they wouldn't get a payment if said downloader loaned the book from a friend, bought it second hand, or found it left behind on a train. They're even less likely to get a payment if they live in a country where the library system is in a shambles and they can't get hold of the books any other place than downloading.

Here's some more statistics:

http://www.plr.uk.com/registrationse...s.htm#collsocs

Of the 32,000 plus who were eligible for payments from the PLR, the vast majority made between £1-99, with only 352 reaching the £5-6,000 limit. Of course those 352 are already multi-million dollar sellers for the most part and the money would be a drop in the ocean for them. It might buy JK Rowling a clue about the digital age, but not much more. If you're seriously arguing that £1-99 makes a difference in a writer's income per year, then I really don't know what to say. Even at the threshold of >£500 which is the next biggest tally, the actual benefit of the payment is negligible, and probably wouldn't bring most authors up to the national minimum-living wage.

We've seriously got to stop thinking about monetary recompense when it comes to writing. Our culture has been in a straight-jacket for far too long, and now we have people doing something about it. From Feedbooks to indie publishers, to the P2P communities, there are people, without any thought of profit, who just want to share what they love with others. Writers don't exist without readers, yet over and over again we see these arguments against filehsaring, against the generation of readers who are growing up now. A generation and a culture, I might add, that buy a lot more products than any other.

If a writer wants to make gobs of cash, then he's in the wrong business. Writing is an act of love, of passion and commitment. You can make more money doing almost anything else. McDonalds pays more than most writers earn per year. Probably less stressful too, and you get free food.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

If a writer wants to make gobs of cash, then he's in the wrong business. Writing is an act of love, of passion and commitment. You can make more money doing almost anything else. McDonalds pays more than most writers earn per year. Probably less stressful too, and you get free food.

Believe me (speaking as a former author), writing for many is just a job like any other - a way of putting food on the table and paying the mortgage. This "romantic ideal" of people "writing for love" is all very nice, but, with all due respect, I really don't think it bears much connection with the "real world".

If you want people to carry on writing books, please support them by buying those books (whether paper books or eBooks).

[John Bailey]

You missed the option to get free (and legal)books only. There are a bunch of places I have found from reading here, and as I only got my reader a few months ago, I'm still reading freebies. I should be at the stage of buying DRM free books this time next year with any luck

I'm with a few of the other posters here. DRM = Lost sale. So I think I'll be avoiding the more famous authors for a while as far as e-books are concerned.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Believe me (speaking as a former author), writing for many is just a job like any other - a way of putting food on the table and paying the mortgage. This "romantic ideal" of people "writing for love" is all very nice, but, with all due respect, I really don't think it bears much connection with the "real world".

If you want people to carry on writing books, please support them by buying those books (whether paper books or eBooks).

And again the "real world" you're talking about is a world that's rapidly disappearing in the face of a new "reality" brought on by file sharing. I do buy books, I do support authors, but the old models are crumbling. The quaint notions of copyright are all but dead in the face of the internet generations. Writers in this new "reality" will write for love, for readers, for the sheer joy of creation. The romantic ideal will become the norm when the publishers fade away, and the way they're acting at the moment, it can't be too long. A whole new culture of exciting, individual voices will rise up and be heard, maybe even subsidised by the readers. Paying the mortgage, putting food on the table, will require a real, boring job just like everyone else.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your first sentence, if a writer is treating their work as 'just like any other job' then why is said writer bothering? Christ, there's a lot of easier, less emotional ways to make money. And I hear that McDonalds is hiring year round.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

And again the "real world" you're talking about is a world that's rapidly disappearing in the face of a new "reality" brought on by file sharing. I do buy books, I do support authors, but the old models are crumbling. The quaint notions of copyright are all but dead in the face of the internet generations. Writers in this new "reality" will write for love, for readers, for the sheer joy of creation. The romantic ideal will become the norm when the publishers fade away, and the way they're acting at the moment, it can't be too long. A whole new culture of exciting, individual voices will rise up and be heard, maybe even subsidised by the readers. Paying the mortgage, putting food on the table, will require a real, boring job just like everyone else.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your first sentence, if a writer is treating their work as 'just like any other job' then why is said writer bothering? Christ, there's a lot of easier, less emotional ways to make money. And I hear that McDonalds is hiring year round.

All the authors that I am personally acquainted with (and there are several) DO treat their writing as a "day job". They have a rigid routine of going to their desk and writing for a fixed number of hours a day. Anyone who writes professionally will tell you that that's pretty much the only way to do it. One difference between a "pro" and a "wanabee" is that the pro author churns out a pretty-much fixed number of words a day, regardless of whether they are "inspired by the muse" that day or not. You have to - you have a contract to deliver a book of a certain length by a certain date; you can't only write when you feel like it.

Publishers are not "going away" - whatever gives you that idea? I suspect that the majority of people who've never written a book don't have the faintest idea of what a publisher actually does. Virtually all that work applies equally to paper books and to eBooks. Books still need to be professionally edited, advertised, sold to retailers, and so on. The simple fact is that the majority of people who "self publish" do so because they aren't good enough to get published professionally. Self publishing is not going to replace "real" publishers any time in the foreseeable future, believe me!

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

All the authors that I am personally acquainted with (and there are several) DO treat their writing as a "day job". They have a rigid routine of going to their desk and writing for a fixed number of hours a day. Anyone who writes professionally will tell you that that's pretty much the only way to do it. One difference between a "pro" and a "wanabee" is that the pro author churns out a pretty-much fixed number of words a day, regardless of whether they are "inspired by the muse" that day or not. You have to - you have a contract to deliver a book of a certain length by a certain date; you can't only write when you feel like it.

Publishers are not "going away" - whatever gives you that idea? I suspect that the majority of people who've never written a book don't have the faintest idea of what a publisher actually does. Virtually all that work applies equally to paper books and to eBooks. Books still need to be professionally edited, advertised, sold to retailers, and so on. The simple fact is that the majority of people who "self publish" do so because they aren't good enough to get published professionally. Self publishing is not going to replace "real" publishers any time in the foreseeable future, believe me!

I find it disheartening that you would defend the old models, and as to myself, I have a writing routine whether the muse comes or not (luckily I put on my magic hat and it arrives instantly). Four hours every single day, 7 days a week (barring illness). Does that now make me a professional? Does my lack of faith in the publishing industry and my desire to be independent somehow make me a "wannabee"? If it's sanction you want, and quality you desire, then I fear you're out of luck. One only needs to browse the row upon row of garbage that is currently in the best-seller charts. Infantile, regurgitated, unsurprising series featuring the same dour, uninspired protagonists. The same serial killers being chased by the same detectives. The same independent women who somehow need a man to make 'everything right'. The same eighth generation Tolkien ripoffs. The bloated, meanderings of genre authors who somehow think that writing 1,500 page tomes makes them important, oh and who always, somehow, get to mention their car crash in everything.

Not good enough, you say? Publishing has never been about quality, its about marketing, about the bottom line, the least offensive, the most passive. For the most part what we see is pablum, uninspired, unflavoured, unremarkable escapism written and published in the hopes of appealing to the most readers. Every once in awhile a book might jump out of that pale soup and surprise, but it's not too often, and it's a risk that publishers take less and less these days.

You argue for the status-quo, the old instead of the new, the fixed instead of the fluid. You argue against a tide that is unstoppable, a culture that can no longer be restrained. For the gatekeepers instead of the lock-pickers. For the shackled instead of the free.

I've already got a boss. I already have to go to meetings with people that annoy me day in and day out. I already tow the line to get my paycheck. Why in Hell would I want to do this with writing? Why would any new author? Because, somehow, maybe, if the gatekeepers pull their finger out I might make a little more than minimum wage per year? Why wouldn't I, or any writer, pubbed or unpubbed, official or unofficial want to be part of an exciting time in literature, in culture?

[HarryT]

I'm afraid that we must agree to differ. We're obviously not going to influence each other's opinion, are we?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm afraid that we must agree to differ. We're obviously not going to influence each other's opinion, are we?

I very much doubt it But the back-and-forth is fun, you must admit

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by John Bailey

You missed the option to get free (and legal)books only.

If you are talking about the free books really published as such, then by all means select the buy option. But if you are talking about the fact that "piracy" might be legal for your country, then please select the P2P option.

[Sporadic]

Nothing in the poll fits me.

I do download books but mostly when the book is unavailable in Amazon's store.

I don't care about the legality but I do try to support the authors I enjoy the most.

[Sparrow]

If writing a book is just another job; maybe they could enter the public domain once the author has been sufficiently recompensed?

A system where a book goes into the PD after the author has made their £20,000 from it - or ten years since pub otherwise. Just a thought.

[vivlio]

It's not pirated books,it's borrowed knowledge.
A student in need of 3 and 4 technical ( mechanical,medical etc) books a year when each costs from 100$ to 300$ some, cannot afford them.So you borrow a fellow student's book or a library copy and photocopy it.Is this piracy?

If in order to pass a class I have to read a crappy,idiot,ultra expensive book or ebook, a title that the professor demands you to know, why should I pay 250$ for the sh!+ ? And for a title that on my own I would never read,not the less to pay for it.
I photocopy pages I need.Many others do the same.And no I don't buy second hand books, I hate them.A book is a very personal item and I want it new, when I choose to buy it.

To the publishers: "Go.... you know the rest"

In p2p you find mainly comics and outadated editions of technical books.You have to photocopy the latest from a friend.
I never read comics,it would be an insult for me if I would,comics are such a waste of time,worst than porn magazines.Neither ridiculous novels.The same goes for style,gossip,fashion magazines and books.Only people with low I.Q. and low dignity read these worthless paper-wasting abominations.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

If writing a book is just another job; maybe they could enter the public domain once the author has been sufficiently recompensed?

A system where a book goes into the PD after the author has made their £20,000 from it - or ten years since pub otherwise. Just a thought.

That's a great idea. Maybe even subsidise writers by paying them upfront a fixed fee for their work, and then putting the book immediately into the PD.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by vivlio

It's not pirated books,it's borrowed knowledge.
A student in need of 3 and 4 technical ( mechanical,medical etc) books a year when each costs from 100$ to 300$ some, cannot afford them.So you borrow a fellow student's book or a library copy and photocopy it.Is this piracy?

If in order to pass a class I have to read a crappy,idiot,ultra expensive book or ebook, a title that the professor demands you to know, why should I pay 250$ for the sh!+ ? And for a title that on my own I would never read,not the less to pay for it.
I photocopy pages I need.Many others do the same.And no I don't buy second hand books, I hate them.A book is a very personal item and I want it new, when I choose to buy it.

To the publishers: "Go.... you know the rest"

In p2p you find mainly comics and outadated editions of technical books.You have to photocopy the latest from a friend.
I never read comics,it would be an insult for me if I would,comics are such a waste of time,worst than porn magazines.Neither ridiculous novels.The same goes for style,gossip,fashion magazines and books.Only people with low I.Q. and low dignity read these worthless paper-wasting abominations.

That's a lot of vitriol against a very important form of fiction, the comic book. And 'all' novels are ridiculous. Nothing more ridiculous than invented reality. Luckily, I like the ridiculous