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Old 08-27-2010, 06:40 PM   #1
guyjack
Edge User
 
Boris Gone...tragedy

Okay...I just wanted to say that the departure of Boris is a tragedy to this forum. When I started the original enTourage eDGe fan forum, he was one of the first joiners and the most valuable. Since I have MS and would have to be away from the computer for days at a time, I turned to Boris for help in moderating that forum. He did so without complaining, even though I was away for too long sometimes. Boris was never an employee of Entourage, but an ardent fan of the device, who helped a sick friend out willingly and without hesitation.

So my take on this is, SHAME ON HIS ACCUSERS! People should really get to know someone before they decide to insult another's integrity and make sure and have proof of what you say before you say it!
 
Old 08-27-2010, 07:17 PM   #2
Chubulor
Edge User
 
I'd just love to drop this subject and get on to talking about the Edge instead of petty infighting, but...I'm still wondering where exactly these insults to Boris occured. "The" thread didn't contain any; the closest was a commenter asking "is Boris one of them?"

I'm no psychologist, but I'd think an adult who leaves a forum and deletes all his/her posts in response to that small level of accusation must have some serious ego issues. Others here have endured far greater abuse and are still around. Why didn't Boris just say "no, I am not" or even better, just ignore it? We may never know.
 
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:38 PM   #3
nprnncbl
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubulor View Post
I'd just love to drop this subject
And yet you responded.
 
Old 08-27-2010, 08:39 PM   #4
guyjack
Edge User
 
Whatever...I fired that off because I respect Boris and he was valuable to this forum. Oh well, maybe he will come back. (opens a beer) Heres to Boris returning!
Subject dropped now...
 
Old 08-27-2010, 08:50 PM   #5
borisb
Edge User
 
Ahem

(I hope you enjoy reading this insane post as much as Iíve enjoyed writing it. Great piece of drama if you're bored and have nothing else to read.)

I think I need to make a one-time post to help clear this up, especially as poor Chubulor continues to be tormented, and I think unfairly. This is not Chubulorís fault (well, maybe a tiny bitÖ).

First off, unlike some cowardly people in the past, Iím going to name names directly, so that thereís no question of whom Iím talking about. (This way there wonít be any unintended hurt feelings )

The cause for my departure lies most heavily on the shoulders of jcase, who, like vicnic before him (and robot originally, but who has since proved himself to be a valued member with truly the truest of intentions), belligerently began threatening enTourage with lawsuits over access to GPL source. His point about GPL was admittedly valid, but his approach was inexcusably rude and petulant. In fact, the whole matter would just as well have been conducted privately and directly with enTourage, not publically in the forum, among people who really donít care about GPL, and instead only get drawn up in a mob mentality and start running around with torches and pitch forks on a witch hunt.

This behaviour got my blood boiling, as previously happened when vicnic did the same. Iíve watched and communicated with enTourage since last December, and at all times they have demonstrated utmost professionalism, courtesy, fairness, and often providing (sometimes without other people recognizing) extraordinary customer service and bonuses. How many of you know that enTourage sent out $30 gift cards to the people that preordered their eDGe, indicating their faith in enTourage, and providing much needed customer support for a startup? How many of you know (or appreciated), that enTourage upgraded the first batch of shipments to overnight for everyone, and indeed shipped them out a day early (meaning most of that group *got* their eDGe on the day it was supposed to *ship*)? How many of you know the extra mile enTourage went to repair and replace problem units, without the grief you get from most big companies? Many forum members know how honourable enTourage has been.

For someone to come in, with absolutely no knowledge of enTourage, and slander the good name of the company and its staff was truly intolerable to me. Honestly! enTourage would have released the GPL code as part of the SDK in the Fall anyway, which would have been just fine as far as most of us were concerned. jcase was just plain rude in demanding it NOW or Iíll SUE. Itís like robbing a food bank. At a food bank, the food is handed out freely and gladly, but you are still expected to wait in line like a civilized human being. (And after all that brouhaha, where's jcase now? He hasn't even cared what was going on in the rest of the forum, or participate much, except in the new Development forum, and that only for a short period.)

However, what happened next was (merely?) a small last straw (a straw in the truest sense and analogy). First (getting back to the original thread that started all this, if you've gotten lost in my long diversion), NiaTrue began to be attacked when she tried to defend enTourage, and when walt526 misspoke in a post, a couple of members jumped all over him for being an enTourage agent. Attacks on their virtue were taken by me to be an attack on me, too, for I identified with them and felt anything that could be said (falsely) about them could equally well apply to me. True, my name was only mentioned in passing, without direct accusation, as Chubulor correctly points out.

It will help you to understand that I've been accused of being a shill in the past, so it's a sensitive point for me. The fact anyone mentioned my name in that thread made it clear that people still, secretly, suspected me of being duplicitous (in every joke there's an element of truth, right?). But, what really hurt was seeing alefor chime in with the same sentiment - a good member since April, and even he thought I (or so I percieved) was a fraud. Now, please, do not gang up on alefor! He was not malicious, but he voiced a sentiment I felt was an undercurrent in these forums.

At that point, I had two feelings. Mostly rage at the behaviour of jcase (and his accruing posse, as every bully has cowardly sidekicks, like MichaelV, that feel empowered by association), and to a lesser extent disappointment that some in the forum I've gladly helped and participated in, even after months of knowing me, secretly thought I was a fraud, which, to me, negated everything I had contributed. To some extent, I also had grown tired of the regular grandiose pronouncements of enTourage's imminent demise if they don't get their sorry act together and fix the poor excuse of a device that is the eDG - paraphrasing the posts, of course. Such people need merely open their eyes to the broader world and see just how far and wide enTourageís business dealings extend, and how shallow the vapourware competition is by comparison. But, I digress

So, everyone, please stop harassing poor Chubulor, and Chubulor, stop feeling like you need to defend yourself. While you were a participant on the negative side of things, you were only a part. You do, however, need to stop chewing on that big foot in your mouth at every opportunity as you seem to not know when to shut up

Meanwhile, I've been working on figuring out if (and how) I can deal with problem people on these exceptionally civilized and friendly forums, and the sometimes stupid or rude things that are said (and I don't mean questions, as people seeking help never ask stupid questions). I have the problem of being too passionate on one hand, and having been unable to deal with dispersions on the object of my passion on the other hand. I care too much, you could say.

So, I have to decide if I want to ignore posts that I find offensive (and let other members flame them), or if instead I want to unleash such a flame firestorm on them that the poster will be coughing up ashes from what's left of their sorry backside (I rather like that turn of phrase...). The latter, of course, isn't really an option, as I myself will get kicked out of these forums. Perhaps if we all petitioned the admins to ban them by reporting their posts as offensive, that would be the way to handle it in a civilized manner? (Frankly, if I had done that on the thread in question, we wouldn't have a mess today, so perhaps it's all my fault?) And yet I feel so strongly that it's hard for me to stand by and say nothing when I see such appalling rudeness. Oh, and adding them to the Ignore List doesn't work, as other people will quote them and ultimately I get drawn in anyway. But maybe I can ignore them. I'll have to see.

Ultimately, I miss these forums very much, and I do feel I was unfair to the majority who did appreciate my contributions. I did what you should never do - give in to a bully. I really do need to grow a pair, don't I? But then, who really cares, and what does it really matter? The world will continue without missing a beat if I donít return. But, hopefully I'll be ready to return to active participation next week, for better or worse...

(And I do apologize for the pathetically sappy tone on which this post ends. The post already was "Verbial Diarrhea" as a high school teacher put it.)

Last edited by borisb; 08-27-2010 at 08:59 PM.
 
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:00 PM   #6
guyjack
Edge User
 
Whatever you decide to do...just keep in touch! I consider you a friend!
 
Old 08-27-2010, 09:37 PM   #7
Chubulor
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by borisb View Post
(I hope you enjoy reading this insane post as much as Iíve enjoyed writing it. Great piece of drama if you're bored and have nothing else to read.)
It was, and enlightening as well. Like Sherlock Holmes swooping in at the end of Hound of the Baskervilles and explaining what was going on. However, there are still loose ends...

Quote:
Itís like robbing a food bank. At a food bank, the food is handed out freely and gladly, but you are still expected to wait in line like a civilized human being. (And after all that brouhaha, where's jcase now? He hasn't even cared what was going on in the rest of the forum, or participate much, except in the new Development forum, and that only for a short period.)
Uh, not really. Entourage isn't (and shouldn't be!) a charity, and the requirements of the GPL don't require waiting in line for five months plus for source code. A better analogy would be the food bank's creditors showing up one night and demanding that their massively delinquent loans be paid back. Some observers would probably find that in bad taste, but the creditors' behavior is understandable. The food bank opened themselves up to this when they took out loans they had no intention of paying back on time.

And in point of fact, jcase just posted today in the Development forum. He's also responsible for finding the easy root of the Edge that garnered the first positive blog post about the Edge on Engadget. He has said he's going to help robot and others with the custom firmware and market access stuff, but he's busy with work he's actually getting paid for.

Quote:
walt526 misspoke in a post, a couple of members jumped all over him for being an enTourage agent.
Given the nature of that misspeaking was that he said he was an Entourage employee, I'm not sure what your issue is. How dare I accuse him of being an Entourage employee when all he did was...say he was an Entourage employee.

Quote:
Meanwhile, I've been working on figuring out if (and how) I can deal with problem people on these exceptionally civilized and friendly forums, and the sometimes stupid or rude things that are said (and I don't mean questions, as people seeking help never ask stupid questions). I have the problem of being too passionate on one hand, and having been unable to deal with dispersions on the object of my passion on the other hand. I care too much, you could say.
Yes, it's hard to know when to shut up, as you say.

Quote:
So, I have to decide if I want to ignore posts that I find offensive (and let other members flame them), or if instead I want to unleash such a flame firestorm on them that the poster will be coughing up ashes from what's left of their sorry backside (I rather like that turn of phrase...). The latter, of course, isn't really an option, as I myself will get kicked out of these forums. Perhaps if we all petitioned the admins to ban them by reporting their posts as offensive, that would be the way to handle it in a civilized manner?
There is a happy medium...you can try to respond rationally to them, or more harshly if it's a consistent abuser (without crossing the line into flame territory). I don't think I like the idea of trying to get someone banned for merely being "offensive"...violations of specific rules like posting personal information, mounting personal attacks, etc obviously should be reported, but fora whose members have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending the most sensitive members get just as sterile and useless as ones that become cesspools due to weak moderation. Also, since you say even harsh criticism of the Edge or Entourage -- not just of individual people-- offends you, that certainly shouldn't be grounds for banning or post deletion.

I guess the only question remaining is...why did you delete your posts? Doing that made it look like you had something to hide, or you were trying to show how important you were by taking your ball and going home.
 
Old 08-27-2010, 09:41 PM   #8
brauckmiller
Edge User
 
Hey, one cool benefit of borisb coming back is that his post count is low again!!!

I'm finally ahead of him!!!!

Oh crap...no I'm not. <sigh>

Welcome back b-man. i was bummed to see you leave and happy that you are coming back.
 
Old 08-27-2010, 09:56 PM   #9
NiaTrue
Edge User
 
Oh, Chubulor. *sigh*

Boris, I hope this isn't just another farewell!
 
Old 08-27-2010, 10:35 PM   #10
D4N14L
Edge User
 
Boris, I do hope you stay this time. The GPL flame war seems to have died with the release of the source (and the now great co-operation between robot and other devs with people like dontpanic).

You were a great help when you were here. It's good to see you back.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 12:17 AM   #11
pat.indie
Edge User
 
Dear Boris
Glad to see you back.

I will now tell you what my grandpa told me one day; A kick aimed at the 'right' area is the way to deal with bullies and whats-their-faces.

Amen.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 02:50 AM   #12
sjarrel
Edge User
 
BORISB, that's short for BOris IS Back!!! Jipieeee! And an update coming up. That's a nice end of August.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 11:52 AM   #13
Eddy R
Edge User
 
Became a 'non-participant' of this forum after my 'Last' post to Jcase. Came back this morning to check status of update that 'borisb' alerted us to.

.....Borisb is right. The forum will continue without Him (us).

So what if the new android/eDGe users don't get the help/insight/encouragement that he provided. So what if they can't search 'borisb' and browse again and again for explanations/clarifications....
which they can understand. And of course, browsing 'borisb' brought you into contact with Walt, Cheyenne, Sarah, Niatrue, etc, etc.

(Bagpipes are playing .. 'Auld Lang Sine')

They have Chubalar.... or whatever.

(Trumpets are blairing.. 'For he' s a jolly good fellow')
 
Old 08-28-2010, 12:14 PM   #14
Chubulor
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy R View Post
So what if they can't search 'borisb' and browse again and again for explanations/clarifications....
which they can understand. And of course, browsing 'borisb' brought you into contact with Walt, Cheyenne, Sarah, Niatrue, etc, etc.
And why can't they search for his wonderfully helpful posts? Because "He" deleted them. What a mean thing to do to all those new users. It's one thing to just leave because you don't like the people on a forum, quite another to go back and make sure no one can be enlightened by your old posts.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 01:04 PM   #15
MichaelV
Edge User
 
I think this is much ado about nothing.
 
 

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