MobileRead September 2011 Mobile Read Book Club Vote

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

No I meant something more significant. How will you come to any sort of conclusion that the blind vote produced a better (whatever that means) or even different result than would have been produced by the current system?

That would be decided by the members. If folks like it we could continue the practice. If more want to return to the present way of doing things, so be it.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by lila55

I did not mean to imply that I cannot vote for a book without the guidance of somebody else. What I did mean to say is that I find it in general interesting to see the tastes of other forum members in books , so that when I come across a recommendation from somebody in another thread in MR, I have a better feel if that particular book might be also to my liking.

Once the poll is closed all of the information would be viewable.

BOb

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

Thanks Tom!

It would be interesting to experiment with hidden polling if possible and see what happens. The positives include that no one will be influenced by other votes, while the negatives include that the discussion during voting may (or may not) be diminished.

I would suggest that if we do get a hidden polling option, that we don't ask that members not discuss what they voted for in the thread. I think we should still have the freedom to talk up our choices if we so desire. Not only that, but it would be hard to enforce a rule like that as anyone could still post their choice regardless, so it seems better just to let everyone say what they like while still keeping the poll hidden.

As to anonymous voting on visible poll results, I suggest a poll if it's not obvious what we as a group prefer. As to whether that poll should be anonymous or not, well, that's a philosophical question that you will have to ponder.

If we say what we voted for, that does eliminate the blind vote. So if I vote for book #1 and say so, then everyone who votes after me would know what I voted for and that could influence what vote is next. Also, if it's determined what's the winning 2 books, that also can influence things. Not saying what we voted for would give the blind vote the full ability to do it's job.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

That would be decided by the members. If folks like it we could continue the practice. If more want to return to the present way of doing things, so be it.

What we are having is a run away most of the time and I'm seeing that as oh, my vote for the book I want won't matter so I'll vote for this other one that has a chance of winning instead.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What we are having is a run away most of the time and I'm seeing that as oh, my vote for the book I want won't matter so I'll vote for this other one that has a chance of winning instead.

I think if you go back and look you will see that we haven't always had 1 book that gets most of the votes. There are usually 2-4 that are pretty close until the end.

BOb

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I think if you go back and look you will see that we haven't always had 1 book that gets most of the votes. There are usually 2-4 that are pretty close until the end.

BOb

By seeing the votes, once we get to a certain point in the voting, the vote mostly stop for the non-winning books. I'm just thinking that the results will be different going blind.

[issybird]

I would find it highly bizarre to have a gag order on people's discussing which books they like or dislike or voted for. In a forum devoted to reading, we'd have an artificial constraint on discussing book preferences and merits for a purpose I still can't ascertain.

In any case, what's to prevent people discussing things behind the scenes and setting up a cabal? Should the mods monitor PMs? Suppose people take it to email?

I still think that a closed vote leads to less rational voting, which doesn't really matter if people think it would be amusing, even though I don't know what it proves. However, I would strongly object to anything that put a constraint on the full and free airing of ideas in regard to books, however.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So if I vote for book #1 and say so, then everyone who votes after me would know what I voted for and that could influence what vote is next.

Let's look on the bright side. Perhaps you're not as influential as you think.

[sun surfer]

[Warning: this post should not be considered as options for our book club. I'm just pondering on various voting methods out there since the subject was brought up.]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Ranked voting isn't really that complicated. Also, you don't have to rank "every" option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_...voting_methods



Of course, it would be nice if the forum software poll module supported it.

BOb

Yes, all this is interesting. While the programmers for this site may take the time to add in hidden voting, I doubt they'll ever add in ranked voting; that would be a lot. But it is interesting, especially when there are so many choices (ten) and you can only choose one. If it were ever possible a 1-2-3 ranked polling would be nice, where say 1 gets three points, 2 gets two and 3 gets one point, or something similar. Not that I ever expect it or really care too much about it; I'm just commenting on the topic of your post.

Along this line, there's also the way the Oscars do it, which is extremely fair for multiple choice votes but also extremely time consuming. They do ranked voting of every nominee and count up all the first place votes. Once that is done, whoever has the least votes is eliminated. The votes of the nominee eliminated are recounted according to the second place votes on those ballots. Then, after that is done, whoever has the least votes is eliminated. That continues until there is a winner. In this way, every voter gets to rank every choice to their liking, and their choice is taken into consideration and matters at every moment. It would be fantastic if there were some software that would allow voting in a poll like this, but obviously it would be very complex and is a pipe-dream.

Similarly and while we're on the subject, the only other way I see of making the vote in this club reach a larger consensus would be to have two votes - one with the ten, then only take the top two or so vote-getters and have a run-off vote so that everyone can vote what they really want the first time without having to worry about supporting a leader, and then also have the chance to have a say on the ones that have the most votes by the end. This would be twice as much work and last twice as long though, and I really see no reason for it. But it was worth mentioning since we're discussing all this.

What I'm really seeing is that many people want to keep it simple, and keeping it simple will keep participation higher. So even if we could ever have ranked voting or whatnot, we may ought not to.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by issybird

I still think that a closed vote leads to less rational voting, which doesn't really matter if people think it would be amusing, even though I don't know what it proves. However, I would strongly object to anything that put a constraint on the full and free airing of ideas in regard to books, however.

I wouldn't say less rational, perhaps a different rationale would be used in deciding.

I would like to apologize to this thread because I started this diatribe. Voices have spoken. I shall not ask questions again.

[JSWolf]

That is an interesting idea to allow two or three votes per person and then have a run off on the top two or three books.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I wouldn't say less rational, perhaps a different rationale would be used in deciding.

I would like to apologize to this thread because I started this diatribe. Voices have spoken. I shall not ask questions again.

Sorry. I didn't mean rational as opposed to irrational, but rational in the economic sense, as in getting to a result that maximizes satisfaction. With an open vote, there's a higher likelihood of picking a book that more people will be willing to read.

Ask away, if you ask me. Why shouldn't things be discussed?

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I wouldn't say less rational, perhaps a different rationale would be used in deciding.

I would like to apologize to this thread because I started this diatribe. Voices have spoken. I shall not ask questions again.

Don't worry, the subject was bound to come up again one way or another. We seem to discuss it every few months - so mark your calendar for November for the next round of discussion on the subject!

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That is an interesting idea to allow two or three votes per person and then have a run off on the top two or three books.

Yes, or maybe we could elect representatives to an electoral college to cast their votes for us. Or perhaps we could institute primaries to decide which books get into the Nominations thread in the first place. Why, I bet if we thought long and hard enough about it, we could build a kind of complexity into the system that would rival that of any government bureaucracy.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Hmmm. I've never really thought about a Kantian-ethics approach to choosing books.

On another note: geo-restrictions are the devil's work.

Just checked my library. The front runner would be inter-library loan and number two has two holds on it. Number two isn't available for purchase in eBook format in Canada. That's twice I've found something I might want to read and not been able to buy it as e-book despite being able to read it at the library.